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Update on a recent Kentucky Apellate Court decision:
So-called “stand your ground,” or “no retreat” laws — enacted in 21 states, including Kentucky and Indiana — have come under fire in the wake of a high-profile Florida case in which neighborhood watch coordinator George Zimmerman fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin and initially avoided criminal charges under that state’s version of the statute.
Jefferson Commonwealth’s Attorney Dave Stengel has criticized the Kentucky law as giving people “a license to kill.”
Brian Lemons, 27, entered a guilty plea to charges of second-degree manslaughter and assault in Campbell Circuit Court, admitting that he stabbed 25-year-old Cory Kessnick of Erlanger outside the Brass Ass strip club in October 2008.
Lemons’ case began early on Oct. 11, 2008, when he and a friend went to pick up their girlfriends at the bar, where they worked.
An argument had ensued between his girlfriend and one of Kessnick’s brothers when, according to court records, Kessnick drove up, got out of his truck, and punched Lemons’ friend in the face.
One of the brothers slammed Lemons’ girlfriend to the ground, and “an all-out melee erupted,” the Court of Appeals said.
Lemons said Kessnick threatened to kill him and backed him against a car, which is when the much smaller Lemons said he stabbed Kessnick twice.
Chased by one of Kessnick’s brothers, Lemons ran away and threw the bloody knife into a garbage can, although he returned to the scene when the police arrived.
In a dissent, Judge Kelly Thompson of Bowling Green wrote: “Lemons was not defending his ‘castle’ but was a participant in a brawl outside a nightclub. The autopsy report indicated that the victim died from stab wounds in the back. Lemons had no defensive stab wounds, and only Lemons’ version of the facts supported his self-defense theory.”
Stand your Ground laws are being questioned now with recent shootings we have seen. Many have posted here about the shooting in Arizona also, of a disabled man merely walking his dog, while a patron was in his car at a Taco bell with his gf.
I am sure there are alot more stories about needless sootings and victims.
THIS IS NOT A RACE THREAD. Please make this about the law, in a court, the issues of race are not important, what's important is: should SYG laws be allowed to stay, now we have seen so many needless and reckless shootings and murders?.
Florida "justifiable homicides" since SYG was enacted in 2005 have tripled:
According to his family, Brandon Baker was goofy, but now Baker is gone. Baker is another victim of Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law. On March 6, 2012, Baker and his twin brother were driving home from a party at 2 am in separate cars. At some point 23-year-old Security Guard and Afghanistan Vet Seth Browning spotted him and thought he was driving suspiciously (The key word is suspicious in both cases). The family has started a petition. Browning followed Baker and his brother all the way home and when the brothers got out to ask him why he was following them (remember Trayvon ask Zimmerman why he was following him), he pepper sprayed them and while they were bent over trying to clear their eyes, he shot Brandon. Browning has not been arrested, but the Pinnelas County Sheriff is investigating.
Justifiable’ homicides have tripled in Florida, alone, since 2005 when this law came into affect.
This has absolutely nothing to do with stand your ground..
OK, a few isolated incidents.....the law is still a great law.
You clearly don't understand what a "great law" is.
I don't think anyone has already provided this article link on this thread; it's a pretty interesting article that looks at 200 cases in which SYG was used as a defense:
"Florida's "stand your ground'' law has allowed drug dealers to avoid murder charges and gang members to walk free. It has stymied prosecutors and confused judges. • It has also served its intended purpose, exonerating dozens of people who were deemed to be legitimately acting in self-defense . . . Seven years since it was passed, Florida's "stand your ground" law is being invoked with unexpected frequency, in ways no one imagined, to free killers and violent attackers whose self-defense claims seem questionable at best."
"Cases with similar facts show surprising — sometimes shocking — differences in outcomes. If you claim "stand your ground" as the reason you shot someone, what happens to you can depend less on the merits of the case than on who you are, whom you kill and where your case is decided."
This is a very obvious sign of a BAD law, not a great law.
In above cited case, defendant violently stabbed a man outside a bar in Kentucky , the defense invoked "SYG" as defense. Beyond ridiculous.
It is in apellate court in MANY states. Requires reading the actual article. Thanks for those who can read the actual facts here, rather than vent like 5th graders that the law is a "great" law. lol
You have no problem shooting a robber who was not robbing your house or your property? So you think if someone is robbing a place, that killing them is the appropriate remedy? You think a possible death penalty is a fair penalty?
Maybe now that there is a somewhat intense focus on the SYG law, somebody will do a study and come up with statistics on that issue.
Stand your Ground laws are being questioned now with recent shootings we have seen. Many have posted here about the shooting in Arizona also, of a disabled man merely walking his dog, while a patron was in his car at a Taco bell with his gf.
I am sure there are alot more stories about needless sootings and victims.
THIS IS NOT A RACE THREAD. Please make this about the law, in a court, the issues of race are not important, what's important is: should SYG laws be allowed to stay, now we have seen so many needless and reckless shootings and murders?.
Florida "justifiable homicides" since SYG was enacted in 2005 have tripled:
According to his family, Brandon Baker was goofy, but now Baker is gone. Baker is another victim of Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law. On March 6, 2012, Baker and his twin brother were driving home from a party at 2 am in separate cars. At some point 23-year-old Security Guard and Afghanistan Vet Seth Browning spotted him and thought he was driving suspiciously (The key word is suspicious in both cases). The family has started a petition. Browning followed Baker and his brother all the way home and when the brothers got out to ask him why he was following them (remember Trayvon ask Zimmerman why he was following him), he pepper sprayed them and while they were bent over trying to clear their eyes, he shot Brandon. Browning has not been arrested, but the Pinnelas County Sheriff is investigating.
Justifiable’ homicides have tripled in Florida, alone, since 2005 when this law came into affect.
The Illinois SYG law has been in effect for about 16 years, and legislators are revisiting it yet again. As is heard in the Joe Horn tape, "No property is worth a human life." Some people believe that a non-violent crime is grounds for death, while others believe that it's enough to call the local emergency number and watch while you wait for LE to arrive. The value of a human life seems to be cheap to many Americans. It's a mistake to think that, because you, yourself, are a law-abiding, sane and trained gun owner, that it is in some way an umbrella of protection for you, your family and neighbors.
[quote] The burden of proof for someone to use deadly force under this doctrine simply requires that a person believes or imagines that he or she is danger. All too often, perceived dangers are arbitrary and rely on an individual's subjective reasoning. By allowing such a rationale for the use of deadly force, "stand your ground" laws are inherently flawed and have the unfortunate potential to increase violence./] and wrongful deaths based on misunderstandings, miscommunication, misconceptions, and racial and ethnic prejudices./]
This is very true. Plus people's adrenaline rush and "crimes of passion" enter into the mix.
Unless a person is a trained police officer, there is no telling what may cause pulling the trigger, and some of those cases were over minor property items , or even bar room brawls. How can it be right for people to kill someone over a verbal argument, when the other person is unarmed?.
Very poor legislation which is now being questioned.
I am so glad to hear states are reconsidering this law. I understand here in Florida it was intended to protect women and children. But the results have been terrible--so many have died needless deaths. Very true: judge, jury, executioner.
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repeal, state by state
