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OP...your or anyone else's opinion should never come into play when another individuals rights are on the table. You are entitled to the opinion, but that's about it.
If you're against homosexuals marrying, it seems to be the automatic assumption of most proponents of same-sex marriage that you must hate gays. If at least a large minority of them had it their way, voicing opposition to same-sex marriage would probably be criminal hate speech.
However, as somebody from the "other" side, I can categorically say this isn't true.
Most opponents - at least those that are vocal or organized - do NOT hate gays, just as most proponents do not hate straights. They simply believe homosexual acts (not the "orientation" or attraction) are immoral, and should not be enshrined in one of our country's institutions. Notice I did not say homosexuals, or even homosexuality itself - just homosexual acts. However, supporters often equate this disapproval of homosexual acts or the gay lifestyle with the hate of those who practice them. They seem to employ a heuristic (mental shortcut) in which a person is reduced to their acts, or even their sex life. Yet a person's acts and a person are two separate things. One can condemn their son's bank robberies without hating him; one can disapprove of their daughter's conversion from Sikhism to Buddhism without hating her, and the list goes on. So too can one disapprove of the actions of a group in society without hating them.
I have nothing against homosexuals. I have had numerous homosexual friends in the past. It's only their actions that disturb me, and how they try to gain acceptance or even official recognition of their relationships. Atheism does as well, but I have atheist friends too. A person is not only their actions or beliefs.
"We don't hate the gays; just everything that they naturally do as a part of their existence that identifies them as gay."
The fact is that most opponents of same-sex marriage do not see it as an issue of "equality." They believe that marriage exists independent of societal norms,
Then they should crack the history books and expand their horizons a little. Only barbarians assume that the ways and customs they grew up with are as fixed as laws of nature.
What does it matter if a homosexual couple wants to marry? Straight people can't get it right. My uncles are on their 5th and 7th marriages and they are straight.
It's not gays that are ruining marriage, it's the heterosexual crowd that's killing it. 1st marriage divorce rates in America are 41% - 50%. 2nd marriage divorce rates are 60% - 67%. Where does the "sacred" part fit in anymore?
We treat divorce as nothing more than a simple breakup. If you aren't happy then divorce! Why bother working at it?
Gay couples are constantly fighting with outside forces and pressures to end their "sinful" ways. They have to fight for the right to marry, when it's given so casually to the round hole round peg crowd. This means, to me, they want it more and will strive harder to make it work.
For the record I am a straight male in my first marriage of 14 years.
I don't know a single homosexual that would willingly associate with someone who doesn't believe they are entitled to all rights, benefits and liberties that are afforded to every other free, tax paying citizen in this country.
Well...then you're guilty of the same 'my way or the highway' mentality that they are. Just because a person doesn't believe as strongly as you do regarding gay rights, doesn't necessarily mean that specific individual is spending time throwing up any road blocks attempting to quash your way of life.
'Either look at things my way, or I refuse to associate with you?'
As a sin against faith, I see atheism in many ways as being worse than murder. Yet I still have atheist friends. As long as they don't try to convert me - and I do not see them as being an occasion of sin for me - I will befriend them.
Atheism worse than murder? Are you saying that your atheist friends know how you feel about them?..You really are an idiot aren't you..What other demographic do your sick beliefs tell you to hate? You would never qualify to be a friend of mine...I'm an atheist who will not knowingly associate with judgmental hypocrites like you...You are a poor excuse for a Christian, or for a human for that matter.
Location: The Land Mass Between NOLA and Mobile, AL
1,796 posts, read 1,661,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvdxer
If you're against homosexuals marrying, it seems to be the automatic assumption of most proponents of same-sex marriage that you must hate gays. If at least a large minority of them had it their way, voicing opposition to same-sex marriage would probably be criminal hate speech.
However, as somebody from the "other" side, I can categorically say this isn't true.
Most opponents - at least those that are vocal or organized - do NOT hate gays, just as most proponents do not hate straights. They simply believe homosexual acts (not the "orientation" or attraction) are immoral, and should not be enshrined in one of our country's institutions. Notice I did not say homosexuals, or even homosexuality itself - just homosexual acts. However, supporters often equate this disapproval of homosexual acts or the gay lifestyle with the hate of those who practice them. They seem to employ a heuristic (mental shortcut) in which a person is reduced to their acts, or even their sex life. Yet a person's acts and a person are two separate things. One can condemn their son's bank robberies without hating him; one can disapprove of their daughter's conversion from Sikhism to Buddhism without hating her, and the list goes on. So too can one disapprove of the actions of a group in society without hating them.
I have nothing against homosexuals. I have had numerous homosexual friends in the past. It's only their actions that disturb me, and how they try to gain acceptance or even official recognition of their relationships. Atheism does as well, but I have atheist friends too. A person is not only their actions or beliefs.
I don't assume that people who oppose same-sex marriage hate individual gay people; in fact, I really don't care whether they do or not. What I do care about is that they oppose full civil rights for a class of people.
Segregationists who argued in favor of restricting black people's civil rights claimed to like black people, but what did that alleged affection spell? No change in the status quo. They also claimed that segregation was good for black as well as white people. To claim a lack of ill feelings for a group while at the same time working against that group's interests does not change the fact that one is indeed opposed to that group's interests.
The fact is that most opponents of same-sex marriage do not see it as an issue of "equality." They believe that marriage exists independent of societal norms, and that it is simply impossible to join two men or two women together in marriage. They have a solid and explicit definition of marriage, and saying that their view fosters inequality is equivalent to claiming that opposition to a man marrying a bag of money or a woman marrying her cow is to support inequality. It is simply impossible; and even if it was recognized by some nation, would not be truly valid. What the government considers to be marriage should reflect what is really marriage, in their view.
Same-sex marriage proponents, on the other hand, seem to have a more fluid conception of marriage, as fits their more postmodernist worldview.
You seriously wonder why people suggest those who are against same-sex marriage hate gays, and you post this drivel??
Now does everyone who is against gay marriage hate gays, of course not. Now they are against equality, but it doesn't mean they hate gays. However, when those making the arguments against gay marriage have to resort to making comparisons to those who can't consent, animals, etc, well yes that is hate.
Well...then you're guilty of the same 'my way or the highway' mentality that they are. Just because a person doesn't believe as strongly as you do regarding gay rights, doesn't necessarily mean that specific individual is spending time throwing up any road blocks attempting to quash your way of life.
'Either look at things my way, or I refuse to associate with you?'
Now who's being childish?
It's one thing to share views on gay marriage, it's another to associate with someone who views your behavior and lifestyle as sick and demented. Would you be friends with someone who viewed your lifestyle as immoral, indecent, and disgusting????
as a sin against faith, i see atheism in many ways as being worse than murder. yet i still have atheist friends. As long as they don't try to convert me - and i do not see them as being an occasion of sin for me - i will befriend them.
wtf???
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