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Old 07-08-2012, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Missouri
4,272 posts, read 3,794,400 times
Reputation: 1937

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tariffs = higher prices. No politician wants to introduce inflation to a nation of consumers by choice. That is suicide. If we were a nation of net exporters as we once were, politicians could possibly get away with a tariff, but not while we like to buy cheap, foreign products.
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,925,720 times
Reputation: 11259
Tariffs are ultimately paid by the consumer. Tariffs are a hidden tax that shifts labor from more productive to less productive ventures thus ultimately lowering wages. Just say no to more taxes and more government.

A little info:

http://www.cato.org/publications/com...-trade-history

From that link:

Quote:
Protectionist tariffs remained the bedrock of economic policy of the Republican Party for the next 20 years. Indeed, Republicans were so intent on passing the Payne-Aldrich tariff in 1909 that President William Howard Taft supported the 16th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution creating a federal income tax as the political price for Democratic support of the tariff.9 That has to have been one of the worst deals in history — a lose-lose situation if ever there was one.
That deal really sucked. We will kick the economy in the gut if you promise to punch the economy in the nose. Bipartisanship at play.

Last edited by whogo; 07-08-2012 at 02:51 PM..
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:58 AM
 
231 posts, read 456,573 times
Reputation: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Yep.

The IMPORTERS are the Transnational Corporations that did the bribing to set this up.

The only thing Free in Free Trade is Tax-Free Transnational Corporate Profit.

So put the Tariffs on the Imbalance, and at the same time, help balance the Federal Budget with that Tax Revenue source, and bring US employment up at the same time.

Amazing that neither the (R) nor (D) types would even consider this. Amazing.
Actually, everyone imports. There is not a nation on the planet that is totally self-suffiicent.
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:09 PM
 
1,725 posts, read 2,071,968 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkcarguy View Post
The people that argue they can't afford anything else, well you are having your arms chopped off and fed to you to keep from starving.
Nice analogy.

But you can start forgetting about America, as we know it - it's not going to last. Unless something extraordinary happens, like a revolution.
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,857 posts, read 24,986,356 times
Reputation: 28579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
No. The US got intentionally mis-educated. Targeted on the MBA and Economics/Business types.

MBAs, etc., were easy targets because they tend to be the dummies of upper education. Sorry, but that is what the GRE scores say.

They were programmed with nonsense like -- Comparative Advantage, Tariffs / Smoot-Hawley Bad, Global Economy. You have seen the nonsense rising for years now, have you not? You even started this post with some of it.

Do some Critical Thinking and see where your concepts come from.
They were programmed to believe something was right because it was told to them in a text book or in a lecture hall. They are too busy taking notes instead of questioning or thinking critically. All that head nodding probably causes brain damage over time anyways. No one stops to think about how we have evolved over the past 60 years. We are NOT a net exporter. A tariff in our favor would lead to higher prices, yes. It certainly would not threaten our net exporter status, because we haven't been an export driven nation in quite a long time. You have nothing to loose when you legitimately have nothing to loose. You'll hear plenty of talk about Hawley-Smoot all the same though...
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:40 PM
 
1,392 posts, read 2,137,001 times
Reputation: 984
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
They were programmed to believe something was right because it was told to them in a text book or in a lecture hall. They are too busy taking notes instead of questioning or thinking critically. All that head nodding probably causes brain damage over time anyways. No one stops to think about how we have evolved over the past 60 years. We are NOT a net exporter. A tariff in our favor would lead to higher prices, yes. It certainly would not threaten our net exporter status, because we haven't been an export driven nation in quite a long time. You have nothing to loose when you legitimately have nothing to loose. You'll hear plenty of talk about Hawley-Smoot all the same though...
I remember in one of my economics textbooks by Greg Mankiw, there was a survey that mentioned that 91% of all economists supported free trade. Basically, most economists live in an echo chamber. Mankiw also mentioned that those who oppose free trade have a political agenda or are union affiliated. It is hilarious that he couldn't see the irony in this statement since it can be argued the same for the pro free trade economists. Economists who oppose free trade are usually considered heterodox economists and are usually ostracized by mainstream economists.
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Old 07-11-2012, 01:02 AM
 
Location: Where they serve real ale.
7,242 posts, read 7,921,617 times
Reputation: 3497
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Tariffs are ultimately paid by the consumer.
Only if the consumer buys an item from a nation subject to the tariff. The reality is if we slapped China with a 17% tariff, the exact same as they do to our goods, then most of the 3rd party multinationals who now make the cheap junk in China would move to some where else (I suspect India and southeast Asia would be popular but Latin America would also grab some) and at least China would be punished for not being a fair trading partner. The end result would be China would eventually have to lower it's own tariff and both sides would get real free trade.

One thing is clear, our unilateral surrender where we removed all tariffs but let them keep theirs hasn't worked and now we have no bargaining power at all because we've already given them everything they want so why should they give in to our concerns?
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Old 07-11-2012, 02:01 AM
 
1,392 posts, read 2,137,001 times
Reputation: 984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Think4Yourself View Post
Only if the consumer buys an item from a nation subject to the tariff. The reality is if we slapped China with a 17% tariff, the exact same as they do to our goods, then most of the 3rd party multinationals who now make the cheap junk in China would move to some where else (I suspect India and southeast Asia would be popular but Latin America would also grab some) and at least China would be punished for not being a fair trading partner. The end result would be China would eventually have to lower it's own tariff and both sides would get real free trade.

One thing is clear, our unilateral surrender where we removed all tariffs but let them keep theirs hasn't worked and now we have no bargaining power at all because we've already given them everything they want so why should they give in to our concerns?
China has a lot of leverage over foreign companies since the state can dictate who can operate in its market. If a tariff was placed on China, it is likely that China would revoke access from many American corporations. Imagine if China revoked access from Las Vegas Sands, Sheldon Adelson would go nuts and would probably start funding political candidates who would appease China. This is generally why the US is powerless when it comes to trade policies with China. Besides, for many corporations, it is better to deal with tariffs than to have no access to the Chinese market at all.
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:41 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,857 posts, read 24,986,356 times
Reputation: 28579
Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
I remember in one of my economics textbooks by Greg Mankiw, there was a survey that mentioned that 91% of all economists supported free trade. Basically, most economists live in an echo chamber. Mankiw also mentioned that those who oppose free trade have a political agenda or are union affiliated. It is hilarious that he couldn't see the irony in this statement since it can be argued the same for the pro free trade economists. Economists who oppose free trade are usually considered heterodox economists and are usually ostracized by mainstream economists.
The problem is we DON'T have fair trade. Hypothetically, those economists should be smart enough to see that. I think they just get a kick out of seeing all our jobs flooding out of the country
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Old 07-11-2012, 06:04 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,872,162 times
Reputation: 24863
We should implement tariffs on ALL imported goods to remove any advantage created by wages, lax environmental controls and government subsidy along with a special tax on foreign derived corporate profits. So what if the pries increase? There would be so much reinvestment in American production that the newly employed American workers could afford to buy American. Free Trade in a Mercantilist system is a way to be economically correct and go rapidly broke at the same time.

Some corporations would lose money and all the acolytes of Mammon (Chicago school economists) would have a collective hemorrhage. Too bad because they live and think within their own reality and could care less about the damage their theories do to most people.

FWIW - When it comes to creating unfair trade for the American workers Clinton was the best president the Republicans ever had.
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