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Old 07-18-2012, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 5,991,811 times
Reputation: 2479

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Widget A:

Price: $100
Pre-tax Profit: $10
Tax rate: 25%
Equity: $50
Return on equity after tax = 10*(1-.25) / 50 = 15%

Increase the tax rate to oh....50%....the company will *generally* do the following.

15% target return = (Product Price) x (10% profit margin) x (1-0.5) / 50
Product Price = .15 * 50 /(.10*0.5)
Product Price = 150

So basically, be careful who you tax and then assume the cost will not be passed along.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with your outsourcing comments, GE for example is one of the largest offenders and then manages to get the government to give them tax breaks for hiring in one division while they continue to offshore their medical stuff to China....under the guise of "expanding into chinese markets" LMAO.


You should also point out that the largest profit center in the GE conglomorate is GE Financial which accounts for more than half of GE's profits. So GE is now more like JP Morgan Chase or CitiGroup than what its once was in the 1970s. You don't think they would want to compete with the likes of Siemans (Germany), Mitsubishi (Japan), Haier (China) or Hyundai (Korea), really. GE is putting the finishing touches on a plant to make locomotives for the World's largest rail system mostly built since 1995. GE financed it for their Chinese partners and its large enough to make all the locomotives needed in China and also the North American market. So guess all those guys in Erie PA who just love making locomotives are going to be **** of of luck.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 5,991,811 times
Reputation: 2479
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
I made a point of trying to buy American made goods, when they were still available, but with time had to give up on that. There's not much available anymore that is US made. Now, when I can, I choose non-Chinese labels but even those don't tell the true story. Most goods are made piecemeal in different locations, then assembled elsewhere.

One thing is certain, though: I recall clearly that "made in America" was far better quality, so it was worth it to me, most of the time, to pay the higher price.

So, with the cheaper goods, somebody is making out well, and it isn't the consumer who has to keep replacing poor quality products.

One problem is old American brand names are valuable property because you can sell it to an overseas company to stick on its products and kinda pretend like WalMart does that the product is red, white and blue. For example the last US owned manufacturer of TVs died in the 1980s (Zenith) but names like GE, RCA, Magnavox, Zenith or Bell and Howell still live on as made in East Asia products and they not the USA mastered the art of making flat screen TV for a price well south of $20,000 . So don't feel depressed you can't buy American just pretend you are like the folks a WalMart do! Also Americans have provided 49% of the investment capitial used to build up Chinese industry so our high net worth types own a very large share of the Chinese economy! I find the Chinese National Athem called "March f the Volunteers" sends a chill down my spine.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,564 posts, read 12,822,450 times
Reputation: 9400
Yes now you get it- disloyal and traitorous corporations have abandoned their origins and the people that built them up... when you can get 100 slaves in China you can give yourself a million dollar bonus---------500 more workers in India who answer phones and fake being American...well there is another few million you can add to your bonus- When a CEO get 30 million in a bonus- It is because he has screwed 30 thousand Americans out of a living- Killing the middle class and creating a class that has no connection to America or anyone else- but is so rich they can live where they please on the planet...as their former workers suffer the loss of their home...ungrateful greedy little pigs- You would think they would respect their history and roots and the people who MADE THEM HAPPEN,
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 5,991,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
False. Therefore the rest of your commentary is wrong.



False, but not for the reason you think. The normal development of a capitalist economy is for labor and jobs to shrink and if possible completely vanish. For example in the 1950s GM had a workforce of well over 0ne million workers and it made 3 or 4 million cars a year. Today it stil makes that many cars and trucks in the USA cars and trucks of much higher quality and technology but has fewer than 200,000 workers. You can thank Mr Roboto for this miracle not outsourcing. Until GM, Ford and Chrystler adopted Japanese manufacturing technology and closed most of their factories, the Japanese automakers were mopping the floor with Detroit's Big 3. Also when you made cars with millions of workers 30 years ago you are goina get creamed by retiree health and pension benefits. This is one of the problems when many of those workers are 70,80 or 90 somethings they just don't die off at age 55 like they used to.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:59 PM
 
5,190 posts, read 4,839,638 times
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so for sure, if we close a factory at home down , then outsource it - how does our native working man benefit?
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,892,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
False, but not for the reason you think. The normal development of a capitalist economy is for labor and jobs to shrink and if possible completely vanish. For example in the 1950s GM had a workforce of well over 0ne million workers and it made 3 or 4 million cars a year. Today it stil makes that many cars and trucks in the USA cars and trucks of much higher quality and technology but has fewer than 200,000 workers. You can thank Mr Roboto for this miracle not outsourcing. Until GM, Ford and Chrystler adopted Japanese manufacturing technology and closed most of their factories, the Japanese automakers were mopping the floor with Detroit's Big 3. Also when you made cars with millions of workers 30 years ago you are goina get creamed by retiree health and pension benefits. This is one of the problems when many of those workers are 70,80 or 90 somethings they just don't die off at age 55 like they used to.

Do you use a washboard to wash your clothes?
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:18 AM
 
8,483 posts, read 6,933,885 times
Reputation: 1119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
False, but not for the reason you think. The normal development of a capitalist economy is for labor and jobs to shrink and if possible completely vanish. For example in the 1950s GM had a workforce of well over 0ne million workers and it made 3 or 4 million cars a year. Today it stil makes that many cars and trucks in the USA cars and trucks of much higher quality and technology but has fewer than 200,000 workers. You can thank Mr Roboto for this miracle not outsourcing. Until GM, Ford and Chrystler adopted Japanese manufacturing technology and closed most of their factories, the Japanese automakers were mopping the floor with Detroit's Big 3. Also when you made cars with millions of workers 30 years ago you are goina get creamed by retiree health and pension benefits. This is one of the problems when many of those workers are 70,80 or 90 somethings they just don't die off at age 55 like they used to.
Both have contributed. However, the automation thing is overly hyped. Still about bottom line. Automation and tech creates jobs just different ones. Factories and services moving to India and China is not imaginary.
Worse Than the Great Depression: What the Experts Are Missing About American Manufacturing Decline | The Information Technology & Innovation Foundation

The Manufacturing Rebound Is a Myth

From 2000 on, especially the "wooshing" noise accelerated like a freight train -33%. What else happened around this time? Go take a look. Here is one biggy.
This was a Big Govt/Elite mass move to go offshore and get the money rolling.

You remember derivatives, right?

The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000

Oh and looky here. Carbon, houses, food, whatever. Just create a casino.
How Goldman Sachs Created the Food Crisis - By Frederick ...

http://www.commoditiesuniverse.com/4...s-and-history/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman_Sachs#1980.E2.80.931999
quote:
Robert Rubin and Stephen Friedman assumed the Co-Senior Partnership in 1990 and pledged to focus on globalization of the firm and strengthening the Merger & Acquisition and Trading business lines. During their reign, the firm introduced paperless trading to the New York Stock Exchange and lead-managed the first-ever global debt offering by a U.S. corporation. It also launched the Goldman Sachs Commodity Index (GSCI) and opened a Beijing office in 1994.
Also in 1994, Jon Corzine assumed leadership of the firm as CEO, following the departure of Rubin and Friedman.

Since 1999

One of the largest events in the firm's history was its own IPO in 1999. The decision to go public was one that the partners debated for decades. In the end, Goldman decided to offer only a small portion of the company to the public, with some 48% still held by the partnership pool.[18] 22% of the company was held by non-partner employees, and 18% was held by retired Goldman partners and two longtime investors, Sumitomo Bank Ltd. and Hawaii's Kamehameha Activities Assn (the investing arm of Kamehameha Schools). This left approximately 12% of the company as being held by the public. With the firm's 1999 IPO, Paulson became Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of the firm. As of 2009, after further stock offerings to the public, Goldman is 67% owned by institutions (such as pension funds and other banks).

Last edited by CDusr; 07-19-2012 at 02:09 AM..
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:27 AM
 
Location: Area 51.5
13,887 posts, read 13,673,869 times
Reputation: 9174
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneTraveler View Post
I don't hate Indians, but I am firmly against us outsourcing jobs to that country. It is not Americas responsibility to provide jobs Indians. And American CEOs who just want more money in their pocket by outsourcing jobs should be punished with higher taxes.
You poor entitlement folks will just never get it, nor will you ever know how to balance a budget.

Whiney crybabies.

When America imposes ridiculous taxes and fees on people (just to open their business), they're gonna take their business elsewhere.

Those who create jobs and earn money for the company deserve to be paid, and paid well. The whole purpose of inventing and creating is, well, duh...............to make money!

Get over our ugly envy and go make something you can sell. Do something constructive. Don't they teach basic business in school these days?

What a pathetic bunch of do-nothings America is raising.
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Old 07-19-2012, 05:57 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,892,870 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
If you take one programmer's job from company x, and send it to India, you are left with 1 job minus 1 job = 0. Get it?
Economics does not work that way. More efficient allocation of resources allows higher production and produces more goods. Capitalism is always destroying, creating and moving jobs around.
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Old 07-19-2012, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,892,870 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Cooper View Post
You poor entitlement folks will just never get it, nor will you ever know how to balance a budget.

Whiney crybabies.

When America imposes ridiculous taxes and fees on people (just to open their business), they're gonna take their business elsewhere.

Those who create jobs and earn money for the company deserve to be paid, and paid well. The whole purpose of inventing and creating is, well, duh...............to make money!

Get over our ugly envy and go make something you can sell. Do something constructive. Don't they teach basic business in school these days?

What a pathetic bunch of do-nothings America is raising.
All I can do is ditto that.
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