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The American Government does more for foreign countries than its own people and this causes indirectly some of what you saw.
This debate is a doube-edged sword. Britain also pays more in foreign aid than most of Europe. Alot of this is tied to contract procurement. But I have to confess when I see that India is pusuing a nuclear program and 5-6 year old children are allowed to trawl through raw sewage for pitiful wages it makes me very uneasy.
No to slave labour. But more of a not in our own back yard approach to economics and Britain is equallly culpable.
Was Shocked By The Depravation I Witnessed In America
America has changed over the past 12-15 years, and it has not been for the better. Here's a longtime political columnist's informed opinion on what's been happening. The second half of his article is what applies with an excerpt here:
I've been doing this - writing columns - for nearly 50 years, 35 years of it in Washington. I can tell you that things have changed, and not for the better.
I've covered fools, crooks and charlatans over this half century. But for the most part, they had some sense of seriousness about them - an appreciation for the national interest as they saw it. Even rogues like Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon did.
The current bunch of miscreants is nothing like that. Centrist Democrats, who talk a good game but don't do much about it, are battling increasingly radical Republicans, a fierce tribe of Bible-thumping know-nothings fueled by money from modern Robber Barons who want to sell the country off by the board foot and metric ton for their personal profit.
Thus we approximate the times described by the Irish poet W.B. Yeats:
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."
From a true blue American, apologies for the bad experience you had while visiting here. Truth be told, you somehow ended up in a poverty stricken area of the USA taking a tour and I have to ask you WHY? We are in the midst of the worse time ever with our economy so people are struggling everywhere throughout the USA, some worse than others. What you don't know is that although there are no jobs here for people, there are always those people who refuse to work, who might be hung up on drugs or have health issues. It isn't a good situation by a long shot but it is also far from how you describe it. You only saw part of the USA so lets say you still have to see the beautiful Mid-West and also the East Coast where I am. Have you ever been to Northern New England in the fall? There is so much more to see that is better than where you were. Come on...don't tell me that all of London/England is absolutely beautiful. You too have your fair share of poverty and people who can't afford to take care of themselves. England is notorious for not having proper dental care for their people so lots of you have absolutely horrid teeth from what I can see..sound petty? Well, when you visit a different country you gotta learn that there will be bad mixed in with all the good. I love the USA...been here my whole life, mostly on the East Coast but have been out to California and have to say that although California is busy and full of activity, has a high incidence of drug abuse and more...there are gorgeous areas there as well. Somehow you missed them and found yourself right in the midst of the worst of it all. My sister has lived in California most of her adult life, I believe her town is in Miramar Valley?? Always call her or talk via computer..anyhow, it is so amazingly beautiful there. All I am saying is....check yourself in England for bad areas, drug areas, slums, poverty, etc. then tell me that you don't have any serious issues with your population as well.
The situation with dental care has improved dramatically over the last 5 years. You can't move for tripping over dentists these days and in my area alone there are signs everywhere "NHS Patients sign up here". And I'm in a middling part of London, nothing special.
It wasn't really my decision to leave San Francisco to be honest I would have loved to have stayed in and around there, it was my girlfriend's because she has family in Monteray so we travelled through these place on the journey there to experience a different side to America. And I don't regret it despite the inflammatory remarks about hicks and yokels.
That was just to trigger debate. Some of these people were decent people, others people you wouldn't want to meet down a dark alley. But hey, I love America at its best. To me America at its best is better than most countries on Earth. But at its worst it is probably worse than some of the poverty seen in the UK. To be honest I'm glad I experienced it as it gave me another experience away from the major cities.
Don't get me wrong I'd really love to explore other parts of America. It hasn't put me off. I'm never disappointed by America as an experience. It has so much to offer. It displays some of the best humanity has to offer, including some of the best writers and music.
Unfortunately there is a side to America that displays some of the worst humanity has to offer too and I just wondered because of the size and scope of America whether this something that Americans themselves were fully aware of. You have to remember the UK is a alot smaller on scale so it is alot easier to have at least a fairly familiar concept of what to expect in certain areas before you visit.
There used to be a London saying "it's grim up north" because of the poverty you see the further removed you are from the south of England and even today that can be true. London has serious gang and drug problems with a kind of gang culture that is similar to the corner boy mentality seen in some parts of America but I have to say I still think it is a little milder in intensity if not something admittedly that can be swept under the carpet.
Thanks for the reccomendations though i'd love to visit New England aif I got the chance. Ireland, Spain an America are my favourite holiday destinations and I intend to go back to America sometime next year off peak.
Last edited by Fear&Whiskey; 07-29-2012 at 07:07 AM..
America has changed over the past 12-15 years, and it has not been for the better. Here's a longtime political columnist's informed opinion on what's been happening. The second half of his article is what applies with an excerpt here:
I've been doing this - writing columns - for nearly 50 years, 35 years of it in Washington. I can tell you that things have changed, and not for the better.
I've covered fools, crooks and charlatans over this half century. But for the most part, they had some sense of seriousness about them - an appreciation for the national interest as they saw it. Even rogues like Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon did.
The current bunch of miscreants is nothing like that. Centrist Democrats, who talk a good game but don't do much about it, are battling increasingly radical Republicans, a fierce tribe of Bible-thumping know-nothings fueled by money from modern Robber Barons who want to sell the country off by the board foot and metric ton for their personal profit.
Thus we approximate the times described by the Irish poet W.B. Yeats:
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."
7 of the top 11 poorest counties in the US are on the reservations of So Dak.
I didn't even realise there was Indian reservations left in the United States. i thought they all owned Casinos now and were living the good life off of welfare checks and shady ancestral lineages that led to huge payouts in reperations to native Indians.
Admittedly I wasn't naive enough to belive that stereotype nor did I necessarily believe that all was sunshine and lollipops but I was convinced that Native Indians were very much assimilated in American society today. That is very much the perception sold whenever the subject is touched upon in the UK. There is a similar situation in a historical analogy with the aboriginal tribes of Australia who were similarly embroiled in struggles for land and who have faced similar problems.
You won't believe this but I happened to watch 'The Outlaw Joesey Wells' with Clint Eastwood last night. It's fascinating to hear what the reality is as it is not a subject we hear much about this side of the pond.
I didn't even realise there was Indian reservations left in the United States. i thought they all owned Casinos now and were living the good life off of welfare checks and shady ancestral lineages that led to huge payouts in reperations to native Indians.
Admittedly I wasn't naive enough to belive that stereotype nor did I necessarily believe that all was sunshine and lollipops but I was convinced that Native Indians were very much assimilated in American society today. That is very much the perception sold whenever the subject is touched upon in the UK. There is a similar situation in a historical analogy with the aboriginal tribes of Australia who were similarly embroiled in struggles for land and who have faced similar problems.
You won't believe this but I happened to watch 'The Outlaw Joesey Wells' with Clint Eastwood last night. It's fascinating to hear what the reality is as it is not a subject we hear much about this side of the pond.
I will be interested in looking into the tribes of Australia.
There are several casinos on the reservations in So Dak, but the way the $$ is divided has been a contention. And every tribe and reservation has a different system. Also, as the economy goes, so go the casino revenues.
Unfortunately, a large part of the population does depend on welfare and/or commodities (which are often sold to get $$$ for other things) for their living, if you want to call it that.
Mainstreaming is difficult as the poverty and poor education factors follow them. Sad, sad situation, and one that would take generations to reverse if the gov't ever got serious about doing it.
Having spent some time earlier this year travelling the West Coast of America I have to say I was bewildered and distraught by some of the eerie towns I went through and the long lost outposts steeped in poverty and decrepitation that would make even the worst slums in Ireland seem like Malibu beachfront apartments by comparison.
Speaking of which, Mailbu looks great on telly but in reality? Sanitation is putrid and it is not even in the same league as Bournemouth in England which is so fresh, full of vitality, clean and so immersed in historical arbhitecture, ports, sandbanks and forests.
San Francisco I love, a very quintessentially American city but away from there I travelled through Sonora and little places whose names I can't even remember except that everywhere shuts at 8pm and the bars are spit and sawdust deathpits. Travelled through one outpost where instead of wine I was served moonshine in jam jars and came across nothing but hicks and tralier trash yokels who were caked out on meth or moonshine and who thought I was an alien from another planet even though they had never even been to the nearest town.
Many told me how their healthcare was non-existant. Alot of hard working people who lost their houses and once considered themselves "part of the blue collar middle-class" or whatever were now on the scrap heap.
Much as I like America and am always blown away by the sheer intensity and tenacity of what makes America a great country I also am disheartened by the contrast and the empty vessels masquerading as people that seem to be part of an Amerca neglected. As many of these people are even unaware of what is happening in San Francisco are there many middle-upper-class Americans who are blissfully ignorant of the poverty and degredation that sits precariously perched on a rocking chair in their own back porch.
What worries me though is that since Thatcher entered Downing Street in the early 80's we've mimicked American style policies with frequent turbulence and instability an inevitable result. Really hope the UK never ends up like America and pursues the kind of policies that have made America a nation of corporate investors that doesn't really know or care what to do with the people that time forgot who are left behind.
Good luck! You're going to need it! May the force be with you!
You didn't experience AMERICA, you experienced the welfare state of Mexifornia. The state with the largest number of illegals and gangbangers and where two/three counties declared bankruptcy.
There are 50 states to visit and yes, poverty can be on a widespread scale or there are pockets. Americans have a history of not travelling beyond their borders. Americans do travel, within their own borders as there is so much diversity with things to see and do.
If you should decide to return, take a look at what other states have to offer. Why, you might even find something to do "in the middle of nowhere".
Having spent some time earlier this year travelling the West Coast of America I have to say I was bewildered and distraught by some of the eerie towns I went through and the long lost outposts steeped in poverty and decrepitation that would make even the worst slums in Ireland seem like Malibu beachfront apartments by comparison.
Speaking of which, Mailbu looks great on telly but in reality? Sanitation is putrid and it is not even in the same league as Bournemouth in England which is so fresh, full of vitality, clean and so immersed in historical arbhitecture, ports, sandbanks and forests.
San Francisco I love, a very quintessentially American city but away from there I travelled through Sonora and little places whose names I can't even remember except that everywhere shuts at 8pm and the bars are spit and sawdust deathpits. Travelled through one outpost where instead of wine I was served moonshine in jam jars and came across nothing but hicks and tralier trash yokels who were caked out on meth or moonshine and who thought I was an alien from another planet even though they had never even been to the nearest town.
Many told me how their healthcare was non-existant. Alot of hard working people who lost their houses and once considered themselves "part of the blue collar middle-class" or whatever were now on the scrap heap.
Much as I like America and am always blown away by the sheer intensity and tenacity of what makes America a great country I also am disheartened by the contrast and the empty vessels masquerading as people that seem to be part of an Amerca neglected. As many of these people are even unaware of what is happening in San Francisco are there many middle-upper-class Americans who are blissfully ignorant of the poverty and degredation that sits precariously perched on a rocking chair in their own back porch.
What worries me though is that since Thatcher entered Downing Street in the early 80's we've mimicked American style policies with frequent turbulence and instability an inevitable result. Really hope the UK never ends up like America and pursues the kind of policies that have made America a nation of corporate investors that doesn't really know or care what to do with the people that time forgot who are left behind.
Good luck! You're going to need it! May the force be with you!
In contrast, I kind of liked Ireland when I visited.
Take a look at the midwest, rather than the left coast, and you would probably have a different impression. California is not what it used to be.
As a native Californian who has travelled extensively and lived short-term in Mexico, Canada, the UK (Manchester and London areas) , Germany, and the far East, I'd take the worst of California over the best of the UK. Nice scenery your way. I like costal climates and enjoy your weather. And polite. You know how to mind the queue.
But the soul of the average Brit died in about 1776. The best of what the UK had to offer the world picked up and moved to the US. Those of you who stayed were content to live under the flag of a King. The UK citizens today are the ancestors of those who didn't have the fortitude to split when the splitting was good.
Oh, and I've seen meth addicts with better teeth than you guys. What's with that?
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Was Shocked By The Depravation I Witnessed In America
I love Yeats, and what a brilliant quotation to summarise the political landscape of America.
The state with the largest number of illegals and gangbangers and where two/three counties declared bankruptcy. 
