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Old 07-18-2012, 11:31 AM
 
4,538 posts, read 4,812,567 times
Reputation: 1549

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Jobs are a zero-sum game. Take jobs from bucket A (America) and put them in bucket I (India) and bucket C (China) and you have net loss of jobs and the money that goes with them. You can mask the problem for a few years with 'quantitative easing', code for massive borrowing from the private 'Fed' bankers, and pretend that new jobs in alternative energy will replace the millions that have already left. The fact is that the jobs are gone and will not return, and we are sinking fast from the gaping hole in our economy. India and China were poor agrarian countries. When you look at them today their cities rival our own.

The problem is that CEOs have all the motivation in the world to cut costs in order to claim the title of 'genius' and give themselves outlandish rewards, and this is exactly what has happened.

Dollars are no longer based on a tangible commodity such as gold, but are used as compensation for work. A dollar is a work unit. Some earn 7 work units an hour while others make 500 work units an hour.

Work units are handed out to many without the benefit to society of any work produced, ie, welfare, food stamps, medicaid, section 8, etc. This results in having those who actually earn the work credits to pay for these in tax dollars.

Those who have the most money seem to be the ones who cry the loudest about the taxes they have to pay. This is in direct correlation to the feelings of 'privilege' they carry with them - that somehow they are in the world to enjoy it and be served by others because they are 'superior' to others.

The results is that the 'middle' is shrinking, while the lower class is growing. The 1% wealthy class is not growing, but is amassing more in terms of dollars. They tend to hoard the money instead of spreading it throughout the economy like the middle do, which creates a drag on the economy. They are not job creators, and many of the wealthy are upper management who are the first in line to outsource in order to boost their bottom line.
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:32 AM
 
17,291 posts, read 29,408,066 times
Reputation: 8691
You're just mad because you're not a job creator.

If we penalize rich job creators, who will create jobs in India? Do you hate Indians?
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:37 AM
 
Location: S.E. US
13,163 posts, read 1,698,118 times
Reputation: 5132
Obama helped outsource a lot of jobs -- he even sent OUR tax money to other countries so THEY could produce and give us the opportunity to buy back the product of their efforts. What a guy, creating all those jobs overseas, with OUR money. He COULD have spent it here, but he chose to spread it around the globe. Evidently he thought we didn't need any more jobs here at home.

<sarcasm off>
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:17 PM
 
5,365 posts, read 6,339,276 times
Reputation: 3360
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
You're just mad because you're not a job creator.

If we penalize rich job creators, who will create jobs in India? Do you hate Indians?
I don't hate Indians, but I am firmly against us outsourcing jobs to that country. It is not Americas responsibility to provide jobs Indians. And American CEOs who just want more money in their pocket by outsourcing jobs should be punished with higher taxes.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:21 PM
 
Location: USA
2,112 posts, read 2,597,136 times
Reputation: 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneTraveler View Post
I don't hate Indians, but I am firmly against us outsourcing jobs to that country. It is not Americas responsibility to provide jobs Indians. And American CEOs who just want more money in their pocket by outsourcing jobs should be punished with higher taxes.
What makes it even worse is these CEO's want tax breaks as well, and many Americans are stupid enough to agree with them.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,892,870 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
Jobs are a zero-sum game.
False. Therefore the rest of your commentary is wrong.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:30 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,029 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13715
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
America's middle class was outsourced to India and China for greedy CEOs to pay themselves millions in salary & bonuses
Not quite. Seems CalPERS (and others like them), one of the biggest investors in the U.S., DEMANDS that CEOs manage their corporations more effectively and profitably. They need a high rate of return on their investments so that retirees' pensions can be paid.
Quote:
...working people have bought enough stocks and shares to become bosses of the bosses. And some pension funds have begun making that clear. CalPERS, the California Public Employees' Retirement System, has led the way in telling Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) and boards of directors that they'd better manage effectively or else. And, CEOs and directors listen; after all CalPERS runs the country's biggest pension fund
Business Ownership & Labor Day
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:37 PM
 
78,432 posts, read 60,613,724 times
Reputation: 49733
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Not quite. Seems CalPERS (and others like them), one of the biggest investors in the U.S., DEMANDS that CEOs manage their corporations more effectively and profitably. They need a high rate of return on their investments so that retirees' pensions can be paid.
Business Ownership & Labor Day
This is nothing short of a brilliant post.

People need to recognize that WE THE PEOPLE are the ones driving the bus.

The hair clipper company near where I grew up moved to Mexico because people in the US wouldn't buy their more expensive clippers even though they were made in the USA.

The CEO reports to the board and the stockholders....it's real easy to blame some old white guy....but they are doing what they are told by the shareholders.

If people don't know the truth and constantly fall for the old "CEO" red herring...they are just that much easier to control.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:50 PM
 
78,432 posts, read 60,613,724 times
Reputation: 49733
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneTraveler View Post
I don't hate Indians, but I am firmly against us outsourcing jobs to that country. It is not Americas responsibility to provide jobs Indians. And American CEOs who just want more money in their pocket by outsourcing jobs should be punished with higher taxes.
Widget A:

Price: $100
Pre-tax Profit: $10
Tax rate: 25%
Equity: $50
Return on equity after tax = 10*(1-.25) / 50 = 15%

Increase the tax rate to oh....50%....the company will *generally* do the following.

15% target return = (Product Price) x (10% profit margin) x (1-0.5) / 50
Product Price = .15 * 50 /(.10*0.5)
Product Price = 150

So basically, be careful who you tax and then assume the cost will not be passed along.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with your outsourcing comments, GE for example is one of the largest offenders and then manages to get the government to give them tax breaks for hiring in one division while they continue to offshore their medical stuff to China....under the guise of "expanding into chinese markets" LMAO.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:57 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,029 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Widget A:

Price: $100
Pre-tax Profit: $10
Tax rate: 25%
Equity: $50
Return on equity after tax = 10*(1-.25) / 50 = 15%

Increase the tax rate to oh....50%....the company will *generally* do the following.

15% target return = (Product Price) x (10% profit margin) x (1-0.5) / 50
Product Price = .15 * 50 /(.10*0.5)
Product Price = $150

So basically, be careful who you tax and then assume the cost will not be passed along.
Yep. End user pays.
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