Isn't Romney the Conservative argument for lowering taxes on the rich? (employment, wages)

[EddieB.Good]

So the Conservative argument is that if we lowered taxes on the super wealthy, we'd collect more in taxes b/c they'd be less inclined to hide their money, and as a result they'd spend more money thus generating jobs...

How's that working for Romney, who's at the 15% rate due to earning his income from capital gains? His rate is a full 20% LESS than he'd pay if he collected a paycheck, so Conservative logic would suppose that his desire to hide his money would be at a minimum...

-If you don't count setting up a hobby horse as a business so you can write off his "expenses" as a loss
-If you don't count setting up your IRA to be funded with shares of companies that are "valued" at 1/50 of their actual value, so your account 20x - 100x what it should legally be
-If you don't count setting up a $100M trust to your kids
-If you don't count setting up shell companies in ff-shore tax havens
-If you don't count hiding assets tax havens

So my question is, at what tax rate would Romney need to be at to persuade him to give up the tax havens? 10%? 5%?

[RCCCB]

You need to remove the regulations restricting businesses.
You need to remove expensive start up fees.
You need massive lawyer and lawsuit reform.
You need to reduce the need for taxes. Make the size of government smaller.

And so on.

Time for people to stop being jealous of other successful people IMO.

[RCCCB]

Originally Posted by EddieB.Good

-If you don't count setting up a hobby horse as a business so you can write off his "expenses" as a loss
-If you don't count setting up your IRA to be funded with shares of companies that are "valued" at 1/50 of their actual value, so your account 20x - 100x what it should legally be
-If you don't count setting up a $100M trust to your kids
-If you don't count setting up shell companies in ff-shore tax havens
-If you don't count hiding assets tax havens

So my question is, at what tax rate would Romney need to be at to persuade him to give up the tax havens? 10%? 5%?

Pretty much all start up business have losses and most fail. I did know someone who was so wealthy they did start a business in the food area for fun. They did take a real loss, did create real jobs and pay salaries, and made jobs through the materials he bought for the business.
You were allowed to take a loss 3-5 years in the past, don't know about now, but even if it is not making money they are generating employment, salaries and so forth. Though under Obama Care all that'll go away.

Capital gains are not wages. Once you've paid the typical taxes on wages you have that banked income. When you invest the banked income the tax level is less to invest it.

Stocks have gone up and down in IRAs, but if there were improper valuations going on the IRS will eat them alive. They love to collect more money (except from illegals)

Of shore companies usually exist to serve other countries they operate in. If they are doing it just to avoid taxes in the USA they would get heavily fined.

Tax havens are illegal as you described them. Those doing that get fined heavily.

Are you a major tax payer in the private sector or are YOU on the dole or government employment welfare roles?

I don't know anyone who goes to work with a joy of trying to turn it all over to a government that spends like idiots. You make zero sense IMO.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by RCCCB

You need to remove the regulations restricting businesses.
You need to remove expensive start up fees.
You need massive lawyer and lawsuit reform.
You need to reduce the need for taxes. Make the size of government smaller.

And so on.

Time for people to stop being jealous of other successful people IMO.

But what if it's not others' success people are jealous of but their tax rate?

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by EddieB.Good

So the Conservative argument is that if we lowered taxes on the super wealthy, we'd collect more in taxes b/c they'd be less inclined to hide their money, and as a result they'd spend more money thus generating jobs...

How's that working for Romney, who's at the 15% rate due to earning his income from capital gains? His rate is a full 20% LESS than he'd pay if he collected a paycheck, so Conservative logic would suppose that his desire to hide his money would be at a minimum...

-If you don't count setting up a hobby horse as a business so you can write off his "expenses" as a loss
-If you don't count setting up your IRA to be funded with shares of companies that are "valued" at 1/50 of their actual value, so your account 20x - 100x what it should legally be
-If you don't count setting up a $100M trust to your kids
-If you don't count setting up shell companies in ff-shore tax havens
-If you don't count hiding assets tax havens

So my question is, at what tax rate would Romney need to be at to persuade him to give up the tax havens? 10%? 5%?

Whats stopping you from doing any of these things other than personal jelousy for another individual?

Tell me why tax revenues went up when Clinton cut capital gains rates from 28% to 20%, and then capital gains revenues doubled (yes DOUBLED) when Bush cut them from 20% to 15%?

I'd say the problem isnt that Romney is subject to a lower tax rate, I'd say the problem is you're subject to a higher one.

Why arent you asking for your taxes to be lowered, because you get a paycheck, instead of demanding his be raised?

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by burdell

But what if it's not others' success people are jealous of but their tax rate?

There is nothing stopping you from doing what you need to do, in order to get the same tax rate.

[lifelongMOgal]

Originally Posted by EddieB.Good

So the Conservative argument is that if we lowered taxes on the super wealthy, we'd collect more in taxes b/c they'd be less inclined to hide their money, and as a result they'd spend more money thus generating jobs.............

No, that is not the Conservative arguement at all. If one must troll in order to make a point there probably is no point to be made (see underlined).


History has proven that tax revenues increase with low tax rates on the capital gains of investment income. People are less worried about the tax consequences and more inclined to participate in the markets, be that capital gains on real estate transactions or on the trading of equities and commodities. Greater market participation by the average American means greater disposable income, increased consumerism, and yes, increased demand = increased job market.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by pghquest

There is nothing stopping you from doing what you need to do, in order to get the same tax rate.

I'd say a tax code that requires a full time staff of CPAs to fully exploit says differently but thanks for that report from FantasyLand.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by burdell

I'd say a tax code that requires a full time staff of CPAs to fully exploit says differently but thanks for that report from FantasyLand.

I guess dumb people say dumb things.. There is no need for a full time staff of CPA's, to get income through capital gains..

[EddieB.Good]

Originally Posted by RCCCB

Capital gains are not wages. Once you've paid the typical taxes on wages you have that banked income. When you invest the banked income the tax level is less to invest it.

Stocks have gone up and down in IRAs, but if there were improper valuations going on the IRS will eat them alive. They love to collect more money (except from illegals)

Of shore companies usually exist to serve other countries they operate in. If they are doing it just to avoid taxes in the USA they would get heavily fined.

Tax havens are illegal as you described them. Those doing that get fined heavily.

Are you a major tax payer in the private sector or are YOU on the dole or government employment welfare roles?

I don't know anyone who goes to work with a joy of trying to turn it all over to a government that spends like idiots. You make zero sense IMO.

What part of capital GAINS do you not understand? When you invest $1.00 get back $1.50, thta .50 is income and taxable, hence capital GAINS tax.

Aside from that, the point of the thread is at what income level do we need to be at to dissuade people from hiding their money?

Originally Posted by pghquest

Whats stopping you from doing any of these things other than personal jelousy for another individual?

Tell me why tax revenues went up when Clinton cut capital gains rates from 28% to 20%, and then capital gains revenues doubled (yes DOUBLED) when Bush cut them from 20% to 15%?

B/c the economy was growing from a massive tech & dotcom & real estate bubble? But that's beside the point anyway. We're talking about income, not the source. Income that can either be hidden away or openly declared on tax forms. Republicans promise that if we just lower our tax rates just a little more, more people will be open w/ their income and avoid sketchy maneuvers to hide their money. So how much lower do we need to drop Romney's rate to get him to stop hiding his money?

I'd say the problem isnt that Romney is subject to a lower tax rate, I'd say the problem is you're subject to a higher one.

Why arent you asking for your taxes to be lowered, because you get a paycheck, instead of demanding his be raised?

Can't wait to hear the logic behind this? The reason I'm not asking for a lower rate is b/c I understand that taxes are for the improvement of society. I also understand that our tax burden is at the lowest point it’s been since our great grandparents.

Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal

No, that is not the Conservative arguement at all. If one must troll in order to make a point there probably is no point to be made (see underlined).

Lol… oh wait… you’re serious.

History has proven that tax revenues increase with low tax rates on the capital gains of investment income. People are less worried about the tax consequences and more inclined to participate in the markets, be that capital gains on real estate transactions or on the trading of equities and commodities. Greater market participation by the average American means greater disposable income, increased consumerism, and yes, increased demand = increased job market.

I was going to tear down this entire segment, but then I realized this has nothing to do with the point I brought up. I don’t care if you want to defend capital gains b/c I’m talking about INCOME and the TAX RATE that stops people from hiding their money.

So, I’ll ask it clearer: at what rate would Mitt Romney need to be taxed at to dissuade him from claiming his hobby horse as a business and the “expenses” as a loss?

Originally Posted by pghquest

I guess dumb people say dumb things.. There is no need for a full time staff of CPA's, to get income through capital gains..

Who cares where the income is from? It’s still INCOME. You either hide it & don’t pay taxes on it, or you declare it & pay taxes.