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I don't know how exactly the pension system works in the US, but I noticed that in most countries pensions for all kinds of former taxpayers (employees, civil servants, the self-employed etc.) are paid by a federal pension system, which in some cases is part of the social security system.
Anyway, I have often wondered why it is that people who used to earn a lot, get much higher pensions than people who used to earn less during their active years. After all, both are being paid for doing exactly the same during their last years or even decades: nothing. Now, for those who say money is motivation, the supposedly deserved extra income was already paid during people's active years and decades. So if some people think they deserve to lead a better life than others until their death, they should have saved some of the money from the higher income they received in the past.
Thus I think there should be one and the same amount for every pensioner, regardless of their former jobs and positions. The only thing that should matter is the number of years they worked.
Move to China or Russia ... they have a socialist system that fits your needs and wants ...
We are talking about retired people here, not the population in general. When someone is in their 40s, they can still do something about it. But when someone is in their 70s, life is almost over, it should happen in dignity. Why is it spreading the misery, when I want all old people to lead decent lives? Even if you don't want equal treatment, a certain redistribution would not hurt anyone.
I just don't want the class thingy to be carried over into retirement, sad enough it is dominating people's lives for half a century while they are still working.
Move to China or Russia ... they have a socialist system that fits your needs and wants ...
Yeah; they all get to starve equally in old age.
Most recent obvious example was the Apec summit held on an island near Vladivostock with marvelous new showy, purpose built facility, accesses by a huge new world-wonder bridge.
Only problem; bridge goes to nowhere dead-ending right after the turn-off to the Apec site. Roads on island are all dirt, no running water, no electricity. Inhabitants are reduced to using an ancient rusty ferry to commute to mainland for work. Press corps were discouraged from delving too deeply into the area but some, like Canada's reporters, simply walked off without asking to tour and speak to locals.
I don't know how exactly the pension system works in the US, but I noticed that in most countries pensions for all kinds of former taxpayers (employees, civil servants, the self-employed etc.) are paid by a federal pension system, which in some cases is part of the social security system.
Anyway, I have often wondered why it is that people who used to earn a lot, get much higher pensions than people who used to earn less during their active years. After all, both are being paid for doing exactly the same during their last years or even decades: nothing. Now, for those who say money is motivation, the supposedly deserved extra income was already paid during people's active years and decades. So if some people think they deserve to lead a better life than others until their death, they should have saved some of the money from the higher income they received in the past.
Thus I think there should be one and the same amount for every pensioner, regardless of their former jobs and positions. The only thing that should matter is the number of years they worked.
This is not "inequality", it's different results of life long decisions by individuals.
I'm in the not so promising group, ie no retirement at all but I am not complaining or think anyone other than myself "should have" done anything.
Last edited by bluesjuke; 09-09-2012 at 11:09 AM..
Reason: typo fixed
We are talking about retired people here, not the population in general. When someone is in their 40s, they can still do something about it. But when someone is in their 70s, life is almost over, it should happen in dignity. Why is it spreading the misery, when I want all old people to lead decent lives? Even if you don't want equal treatment, a certain redistribution would not hurt anyone.
I just don't want the class thingy to be carried over into retirement, sad enough it is dominating people's lives for half a century while they are still working.
You pose an interesting question ......
There are multiple types of retirement income ....
The first is social security which is a base government pension. Most developed countries have a pension of this type.
The second is an occupational pension. This will depend on your employer. Some have very good pensions, some have no pensions. In most cases, the employee pays in a certain amount and the employer will match it.
Then you have pension related savings. In the USA that would be a 401K or an RBAP. In Switzerland it would be 2nd pillar. How much you have when you retire depends on how much you pay in and how your investment decisions have worked out over the life of the fund.
Finally you have your savings and how much income they can generate for you.
Some people will have a much bigger retirement income than others because they had better benefits and/or they saved more money when they were working.
We are talking about retired people here, not the population in general. When someone is in their 40s, they can still do something about it. But when someone is in their 70s, life is almost over, it should happen in dignity. Why is it spreading the misery, when I want all old people to lead decent lives? Even if you don't want equal treatment, a certain redistribution would not hurt anyone.
I just don't want the class thingy to be carried over into retirement, sad enough it is dominating people's lives for half a century while they are still working.
Neuling; to some degree, this discussion goes to the heart of personal responsibility versus "nanny state" ideology.
We must take some responsibility for our own welfare in certain aspects of our life. Early upbringing should bring with it the teaching that decisions we make today will have far reaching and irreversible consequences in later life. This is the very meat and potatoes of good parenting.
My parents were quite insistent on teaching us that to rely upon any government for our future existence and well being was pure folly. Those things could only be guaranteed by personal decisions and sacrifices made by ourselves in early life.
While my country has a universal pension plan along with a stipend of old age security; I was nevertheless admonished to prepare for my later years by planning and contributing to my OWN investment for that time throughout my working life.
None of the possible drawbacks to old age could be said to be a surprise when we finally arrive there.
There is no excuse for arriving at retirement and being taken by surprise.
This is not "inequality", it's different results of life long decisions by individuals.
I'm in the not so promising group, ie no retirement at all but I am not complaing or think anyone one other than myself "should have" done anything.
We are talking about retired people here, not the population in general. When someone is in their 40s, they can still do something about it. But when someone is in their 70s, life is almost over, it should happen in dignity. Why is it spreading the misery, when I want all old people to lead decent lives? Even if you don't want equal treatment, a certain redistribution would not hurt anyone.
I just don't want the class thingy to be carried over into retirement, sad enough it is dominating people's lives for half a century while they are still working.
Then go find a 70 year old that never worked a day in their lives and didn't pay into SS and take them into your home.
Middle class people bear the brunt of having to already pay for the poor nevermind you now asking them to pay for the old as well.
People need to plan for their future. This "class thingy" has been with us since the beginning of time.
Let's make it even more equitable. Forget how many years you work, how much you made and how much you paid in. Make everybody's pension the same. Let's all have a pension of $500,000 per year. That way we can all live comfortably in our retirement years. And while we're at it, let's make age 60 the normal retirement date. That way we can be sure to enjoy retirement longer.
If you don't agree with my proposal, you are also probably against god, motherhood and apple pie.
What exactly did people with private pensions "pay in"??? Did autoworkers "pay in" anything for the billions they took out in retirement?
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