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It appears that several articles and comments are coming out of the Middle East, in particular, from those struggling with more upset in their area of the world and how it is viewed and handled.
This article, translated from Arabic states that Democracy is not possible in Iraq, and goes on to say why!
ontheroad- thank you for sharing this. I honestly think this is what causes us so much trouble in our foreign policy adventures. We always tend to look at issues from our narrow American perspective. This should have been well researched and discussed within the administration before we ever pulled the trigger. Then it would not have been such a shock that Iraq has turned into the quagmire we are dealing with today.
And the article brings up some valid points for consideration. I see a lot of posters that refer to themselves as Christian that complain loudly about how new immigrants coming to the United States do not do things "our way" and do not want to share "our customs" and why don't they just leave?
Perhaps our Great Democratic Experiment has only worked so well because let's face it the WASPs were pretty much running the show the whole time. And maybe the "Every Man is Equal" line works fine only under that dynamic?
How can we then act surprised when we go to an area where there has been religious and tribal hatred for centuries and expect them to all throw that hatred and division away overnight and live together in harmony, when people don't want to do that over here, and we are just starting to have to deal with diversity?
I agree, bily4. If you are a reader, here is a review of a book that is so well written, and easy to read about the origins of Islam, its differences, the changes after the Prophet died, etc. A most remarkable read and one that I highly recommend to anyone even vaguely interested in the Middle East, and Islam. And how can we not be interested in better understanding the people with whom we are fighting, and calling terrorists.
Has the one shoe size fits all method of anything ever worked? Why on earth would so many think that democracy is a solution to other peoples problems just because it worked for us? There are quite a few societies and cultures on the face of this earth in which a dictatorship, monarchy, or even anarchy would work better.
I agree, bily4. If you are a reader, here is a review of a book that is so well written, and easy to read about the origins of Islam, its differences, the changes after the Prophet died, etc. A most remarkable read and one that I highly recommend to anyone even vaguely interested in the Middle East, and Islam. And how can we not be interested in better understanding the people with whom we are fighting, and calling terrorists.
Tried to give you some rep, but said it wouldn't let me.
America tends to fear what it does not understand. Islam is a culture and way of life, not all Muslims are terriorist as the media would have us to believe. I think that as a previous poster stated, America tends to look at things with a "narrow perspective" and with no respect for other peoples cultures/religions, etc. It's the American way or no way. Democracy is not for EVERYONE, and America is far from perfect, so I do not think it is fair that we tend to FORCE our beliefs on ANYONE. As TnHillTopper stated, few societies and cultures on the face of this earth in which a dictatorship, monarchy, or even anarchy would work better. I would add to that, and has worked.
It appears that several articles and comments are coming out of the Middle East, in particular, from those struggling with more upset in their area of the world and how it is viewed and handled.
This article, translated from Arabic states that Democracy is not possible in Iraq, and goes on to say why!
Perhaps if we listened more closely we might hear the beat of a different drummer than our own media.
no brainer 2 surveys have been done in bagdad courtesy us taxpayer here are the results.
over 60% of iraqi's think its ok to shoot at american soldiers.
the majority of iraqi's (over 50%) do not want the US to withddraw.
does that help?
stephen s
san diego ca
All good posts, so far. I think we often forget, surrounded as we are by modern secular American culture, just how "weird" we really are, in the context of the wide world out there. In our western, liberal culture, known only in a few prosperous "first-world" areas, we have learned over the centuries to place our trust in strangers, and to respect institutions. We respect the police, for example, for what they represent, not because of who they are. We look at the law as applying to all of us, rathere than only certain groups. And we theoretically see "fairness" as an idea that should apply to ALL of us. This is a concept almost impossible to imagine for residents of the "third world", and it's easy for us westerners to forget this.
Even next-door Mexico has a very different culture than ours, in the fact that the family is the primary focus, for most people, most of the time. An attack on a family member is seen as an attack on the whole family. In order to trust someone, or do business with him, or agree to "work" with him, one feels the need to know something about him--family connections, mutual friends, etc., etc. In Mexico there isn't a lot of trust given out to the average, unknown stranger....and yet, for all this relative "paranoia", Mexico is a far more progressive place than many. It's actually not all that unusual. It is just not a "first world" culture.
Though in some areas the middle east is wealthy, its social structure is still heavily "tribal". Everyone knows, and is very conscious of, the other person's tribal, family, and religious affiliations. Recall that even Saddam, though he led a relatively prosperous, high-tech country, relied almost entirely on an inner circle from his own home town, or his relatives. There were very few "outsiders", and these were often ruthlessly purged. These people didn't see themselves as "Iraqis" in the way that an American might think of himself as an "American".
Just a reminder of the enormous difficulty of even DISCUSSING democracy in an area where it would seem dangerously naive to "let down one's guard" and agree to "throw in" with a group of strangers. It's highly unlikely the Iraqis will be ready for this any time soon, and much MORE unlikely that a group of foreign invaders will be able to convince them of the "joys" of democracy....
If more Americans, in the government and on the street, understood the unique differences around the world, and how these countries function, we'd have better diplomacy from Washington, and a better and clearer understanding why our involvement is not always perceived as of benefit and frequently is resented.
Values in the West, here in the States, are not even a mirror image of our European allies, let alone our neighbours to the South, or those in the Middle East. It is also, impossible to lump regions together, without thought.
In Islam itself, the differences, although on paper are slight, are enormous within the Sh'ia and Sunni communities. And these are but two of many different people (groups) in the Middle East.
If more Americans, in the government and on the street, understood the unique differences around the world, and how these countries function, we'd have better diplomacy from Washington, and a better and clearer understanding why our involvement is not always perceived as of benefit and frequently is resented.
Well OnTheRoad, I suspect that many of these ideas, experiences shared, and of course the whole gambit of, "What ifs" have been well understood by our government as well as other governments for some time. With the pool of people and experience as well as the sheer volume of information and the money to implement actions, our government surely knows this.
As to the people, well I have a hunch this has a lot to do with our societal shell. A buffer of two vast oceans and a population of people that lack curiosity, imagination, and are threatened by anything that would disturb its comfortable belief that it is supreme.
I suspect that they are as devoid of curiosity, imagination and are as threatened as the populace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper
Well OnTheRoad, I suspect that many of these ideas, experiences shared, and of course the whole gambit of, "What ifs" have been well understood by our government as well as other governments for some time. With the pool of people and experience as well as the sheer volume of information and the money to implement actions, our government surely knows this.
As to the people, well I have a hunch this has a lot to do with our societal shell. A buffer of two vast oceans and a population of people that lack curiosity, imagination, and are threatened by anything that would disturb its comfortable belief that it is supreme.
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