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Old 09-27-2012, 11:08 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,029 posts, read 44,840,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
No, they are not.
Yes, they are. The IRS confirms it.
Quote:
As I keep saying, it is recycled into their wealth.
No, it is not. It is GIVEN to others in the following ratios:

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Old 09-27-2012, 11:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I've known that all along. You seem to totally miss the point that debt/credit is borrowed value. Hence... the National Debt on which we're paying interest to the tune of a 1/2 trillion dollars per year.
Then pay it off with coins.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:10 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,029 posts, read 44,840,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Then pay it off with coins.
Where are there $16 trillion in coins?
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:19 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,029 posts, read 44,840,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
The problem is they are printing money to support ponzi schemes. The Fed inflates assets and actually makes production more expensive. Is it good news to know the labor force you want to hire has to pay more rent because the Fed jacked up asset prices?
It would be more accurate to say that the Fed is devaluing the dollar. Assets aren't necessarily worth more. But the dollar IS worth less.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:20 AM
 
20,726 posts, read 19,367,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Yes, they are. The IRS confirms it.
No, it is not. It is GIVEN to others in the following ratios:
No , they are not paying taxes. They are collecting taxes.

Official FIRE Economy site

The very rich collect the same taxes that the old landed gentry did during the feudal period. Its now disguised as the FIRE sector. They collect access charges to real estate ground rents which isn't a product.It a tool gate economy. Every time tax money is spent on infrastructure it recycles into asset prices.

I told you , I reject your neo liberal economic models with disdain as I have for years.

That is why Sears died selling their FIRE sector assets like All State, Discover, and Sear Credit.
That is why GM made all their money with GMAC.
That is why General Electric is a financial company.
That is why WalMart is now essentially a REIT.


If you don't rotate out perishable wealth based upon human labor and technology that reduces the marginal utility of past production and sink money into land, minerals, and political power and its economic rents you will die from competition who does. Unfortunately its an effective tax on the goods and service economy and particularly against labor.

Here is a monopoly rent in action on the high marginal utility of space in cramped space created from the productive economy around it:

Chicago faces $200 million claim over Aqua parking garage - Chicago Sun-Times
Under the $563 million, 99-year deal that privatized four city-owned parking garages in downtown Chicago, City Hall made a promise:
It wouldn’t allow any parking facilities to open nearby.That was six years ago, under then-Mayor Richard M. Daley.
Today, though, you can park just a block away in a new garage at the 82-story Aqua building — and it’s cheaper, too.

That’s angered the consortium of investors who took control of the garages and thought they were safe from competition. Their group, known as Chicago Loop Parking LLC, has filed an arbitration claim against the city that could leave Chicago taxpayers on the hook for $200 million or more, documents obtained by the Chicago Sun-Times show.



Competition angers FIRE sector tax collectors who want a sure thing.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:22 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,029 posts, read 44,840,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
No , they are not paying taxes. They are collecting taxes.
No.

THIS is what "collecting" taxes looks like:

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Old 09-27-2012, 11:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
It would be more accurate to say that the Fed is devaluing the dollar. Assets aren't necessarily worth more. But the dollar IS worth less.
It would not devalue the dollar if it were not a ponzi scheme. More money made more widgets then buying power would remain the same.

The whole reason they are doing it anyway is because the US is engaging in and winning a currency war. Adam Smith discussed the currency war between the Bank of Scotland and the Royal bank of Scotland.

A Brief History and Analysis of Scottish Free Banking, 1716-1845

As of now instead of banking agents redeeming notes for specie the game is to buy up hard goods faster than your opponent. This is what the banks tried to do to try and mop up the coin but the competition kept redeeming the notes at the rival bank.

That is what QE3 is all about.

QE3 and the Looming Currency War - WSJ.com

This could be an attempt to keep the BRICs from leaving the dollar. They sure did a good job of wrecking the Ruble zone.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No.

THIS is what "collecting" taxes looks like:
No see its not. As I said, you collect taxes by virtue of the land you are on. That is why Chinese nationals pay Chinese taxes. Its the land, see. So if a land lord wants money for this:



8 Hooulu Pl in Molokai Maui, Hawaii


This is a land access charge. People seem to have no trouble understanding why you can't buy a bridge, but for some reason their eyes just glaze over with land. When they do build a "bridge" often it raiser the value of their assets which will be a tax collected from the people who do not own them with higher access charges.


You will be governed by the FIRE sector agents like the mortgage broker and real estate agents. This is a tax you pay them only its more like a dictatorship. its all very cleverly wrapped in "capitalist" guise; yes I admit.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:46 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,029 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13715
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
No see its not. As I said, you collect taxes by virtue of the land you are on.
No. I'm on land and I PAY the local government bodies tens of thousands of dollars in property tax each year.

Quote:
You will be governed by the FIRE sector agents like the mortgage broker and real estate agents. This is a tax you pay them only its more like a dictatorship. its all very cleverly wrapped in "capitalist" guise; yes I admit.
Why do you insist on ignoring the redistribution of wealth via inequitable taxation and the likewise inequitable disbursement of those taxes in government services and benefits?

THIS is what tax "collection" looks like in this country:



Taxes are PAID by the productive contributors, and collected by non-contributors in grossly inequitable proportions.

The only way you can convince me that the 5+ figures (I won't go into any more detail than that) I pay in federal income tax inflates my assets is if I see the 8.21 times gain the bottom 20% is getting on their tax dollar.

That just isn't happening. Your theory is a bust.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:48 AM
 
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What was Ross Perot's real tax even when looking at non FIRE sector since his money came from government contracts with EDS?

Big business and big government go hand in hand.

Presidential Candidate H. Ross Perot - The Dark Side

Silly little charts from bean counting accountants cannot account for this. This is why land and natural wealth assets must be taxed. This is also why state power needs to be recovered and is the true evil of the national debt.

What a "hero" he was...Yeah and I have been at this long enough to know about it in detail. He was at least correct about labor arbitrage that was going to ruin us.

The national debt was never meant to be paid off, and I doubt it ever will be.The amount is the least of our problems. In fact it is no problem at all. 16 trillion, 160 trillion whatever. Japan will prove that point since they own their own debt.
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