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Old 10-05-2012, 07:41 PM
 
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If money printing create prosperity, then Zimbabwe would be the wealthiest country in the world.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,956,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cw30000 View Post
If money printing create prosperity, then Zimbabwe would be the wealthiest country in the world.
Look, the Austrian/Ron Paul types made some very strong predictions about inflation -- and understandably, given their model of how the world works. In their version of reality, it really isn’t possible to triple the monetary base without dire effects on the price level. In the Keynesian version of reality, of course, that’s not only possible but what the model predicts in a liquidity trap.

So since we did indeed triple the monetary base with nothing much happening to inflation, the right lesson to draw is that their model is all wrong. Unfortunately, I see no hint that anyone in your camp is prepared to consider that possibility.

The comparison to Zimbabwe is off mark. The model says that increasing the money supply will not create inflation only in the narrow case of the liquidity trap.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Florida
33,571 posts, read 18,174,016 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Look, the Austrian/Ron Paul types made some very strong predictions about inflation -- and understandably, given their model of how the world works. In their version of reality, it really isn’t possible to triple the monetary base without dire effects on the price level. In the Keynesian version of reality, of course, that’s not only possible but what the model predicts in a liquidity trap.

So since we did indeed triple the monetary base with nothing much happening to inflation, the right lesson to draw is that their model is all wrong. Unfortunately, I see no hint that anyone in your camp is prepared to consider that possibility.
that is because that money is not flooding the market. It is going to debt to be absorbed by what the toxic asssets are worth.. much less to fill the hole of what is already lost. It is money that is printed that has already disappeared in many ways. Debt, bad loans, interest on borrowed money and money leaving the country as we are the consumers who buy . And many on the system eating up our economy by the freebees given. We have a dollar shortage because we are imploding from within.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:10 PM
 
Location: South Dakota
2,608 posts, read 2,098,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Look, the Austrian/Ron Paul types made some very strong predictions about inflation -- and understandably, given their model of how the world works. In their version of reality, it really isn’t possible to triple the monetary base without dire effects on the price level. In the Keynesian version of reality, of course, that’s not only possible but what the model predicts in a liquidity trap.

So since we did indeed triple the monetary base with nothing much happening to inflation, the right lesson to draw is that their model is all wrong. Unfortunately, I see no hint that anyone in your camp is prepared to consider that possibility.
So you think we can just stay at ZIRP forever and the FED can just buy everything right???

Yea they can try all the accounting scams they want but you need lending to actually create $$$ and get money moving with this Ponzi $$$ system...

With negative real rates and a population that produces nothing and has a destroyed credit rating who's gonna do the lending???

Sure here and there they can do sub prime scams, but the credit cards maxed out...

The student loan bubble scam is just about over too...

Business is all refinanced at rock bottom too...

So where's this credit expansion gonna come from???
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:21 PM
 
4,156 posts, read 4,177,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Look, the Austrian/Ron Paul types made some very strong predictions about inflation -- and understandably, given their model of how the world works. In their version of reality, it really isn’t possible to triple the monetary base without dire effects on the price level. In the Keynesian version of reality, of course, that’s not only possible but what the model predicts in a liquidity trap.

So since we did indeed triple the monetary base with nothing much happening to inflation, the right lesson to draw is that their model is all wrong. Unfortunately, I see no hint that anyone in your camp is prepared to consider that possibility.

The comparison to Zimbabwe is off mark. The model says that increasing the money supply will not create inflation only in the narrow case of the liquidity trap.
Keynesian economics allow politicians to play Santa Claus. Just look at the dollar since the government's policy's base on Keynesian. They started in the mid 30s, and the value of dollar is in a free fall. So you are telling me that money printing will not inflation?

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Old 10-05-2012, 09:54 PM
 
20,728 posts, read 19,374,196 times
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Originally Posted by cw30000 View Post
If money printing create prosperity, then Zimbabwe would be the wealthiest country in the world.
I think the silly cliche` got old the second time I heard it. Its an African hole in a civil war. Most countries that have inflation are in a condition where inflation is the least of their problems.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:57 PM
 
20,728 posts, read 19,374,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cw30000 View Post
Keynesian economics allow politicians to play Santa Claus. Just look at the dollar since the government's policy's base on Keynesian. They started in the mid 30s, and the value of dollar is in a free fall. So you are telling me that money printing will not inflation?

Right and look at the buying power of the dollar going up in the 1930s. That was a paradise wasn't it? We want depression. That'll fix it.


Money printing causes inflation when you print it and no product is made. That is what bankers specialize in these days. You have some real estate, someone goes to a bank and buys it for more money and then...you have the same piece of real estate, more money and no real product. Da guberment sucks but come on.. The bank credit bomb was worse. The banks created 27 trillion in credit, between 2001-2008, more than twice the national debt then. The national debt is bigger now because of it and quite honestly is much cheaper than bank credit. Even using the bogus market credit fiction. Is it better to borrow money at 1.5% or 5% to use as money? Does 1.75 trillion add up to much on say a 3.5% spread on 50 trillion annually? We would rather circulate bank credit at high rent? Oh and we don't even need to borrow money. We could just mint it and not pay the bank tax. That's about a 2.5 trillion bank subsidy every year.

Last edited by gwynedd1; 10-05-2012 at 10:09 PM..
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:10 PM
 
29,407 posts, read 22,017,439 times
Reputation: 5455
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Look, the Austrian/Ron Paul types made some very strong predictions about inflation -- and understandably, given their model of how the world works. In their version of reality, it really isn’t possible to triple the monetary base without dire effects on the price level. In the Keynesian version of reality, of course, that’s not only possible but what the model predicts in a liquidity trap.

So since we did indeed triple the monetary base with nothing much happening to inflation, the right lesson to draw is that their model is all wrong. Unfortunately, I see no hint that anyone in your camp is prepared to consider that possibility.

The comparison to Zimbabwe is off mark. The model says that increasing the money supply will not create inflation only in the narrow case of the liquidity trap.
The problem is all your little models are playing with the lives of people. I sit here and watch the price of everything at the grocery store go up, gas go up, heating go up, everythign is going up. Meanwhile I watch the fed institute QEIII which is handing 40 billion dollars a month to bail out the banks and investors in these crooked MBS pools and trust funds and you say oh well wage increases will offset all that. You aren't living in the world of reality. All this printing is going to make all that stuff I just mentioned go up even more and as previously stated those finding jobs now are getting them in fields where they are making less money than they were before. All these puppets at the fed are doing is writing checks that we the people will have to pay and thier buddies are shoveling that money into wherever they can and will run for the door. That is what is happening right now and has been for the last ten years. Why do you think all these heads of global banks have been resigning like rats jumping a sinking ship the last year? They know it's coming. We all do.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Florida
33,571 posts, read 18,174,016 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
The problem is all your little models are playing with the lives of people. I sit here and watch the price of everything at the grocery store go up, gas go up, heating go up, everythign is going up. Meanwhile I watch the fed institute QEIII which is handing 40 billion dollars a month to bail out the banks and investors in these crooked MBS pools and trust funds and you say oh well wage increases will offset all that. You aren't living in the world of reality. All this printing is going to make all that stuff I just mentioned go up even more and as previously stated those finding jobs now are getting them in fields where they are making less money than they were before. All these puppets at the fed are doing is writing checks that we the people will have to pay and thier buddies are shoveling that money into wherever they can and will run for the door. That is what is happening right now and has been for the last ten years. Why do you think all these heads of global banks have been resigning like rats jumping a sinking ship the last year? They know it's coming. We all do.
The dollar is losing value , that is why everything is going up. It isn't worth what is was. the more they print , the less value, and the products will go higher while wages go lower.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:18 PM
 
29,407 posts, read 22,017,439 times
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That is why the price of oil is going up. Dollar worth less so the sheiks charge more. Year ago brent crude was around 85-90 a barrel and today it closed at 111 a barrel.
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