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If this is the case, Mr. Schiff may be an knowledgeable economist but he is sorely ignorant of government or law. So let's put this taxes as theft meme to rest once and for all.
Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property,without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
DUE PROCESS
It means according to the law of the land, including the Constitution with its guaranties and the legislative enactments and rules duly made by its authority, so far as they are consistent with constitutional limitations." Ekern v. McGovern, 154 Wis. 157, 142 N.W. 595, 620 (1913), cases cited.
Article 1 - The Legislative Branch Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Amendment 16 - Status of Income Tax Clarified
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
Now whether Mr. Schiff or anyone else likes the above facts is irrelevant. Within our constitutional framework, the imposition of taxes is a power held by Congress, granted by the Constitution and as such cannot in any way shape for form give rise to an illegal seizure of property, i.e., theft. The argument is a non-starter.
Sorry but that is way too complicated to read, I say taxes are still theft from my pocket when they're used for gov't programs I don't personally benefit from.
Sorry but that is way too complicated to read, I say taxes are still theft from my pocket when they're used for gov't programs I don't personally benefit from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003
Taking money from one person and giving it to another person is theft. It really is that simple.
How are taxes theft when they're one of the explicit powers of gov't that the Constitution authorizes?
For most of history, piracy and brigandry was not thought of as immoral, i.e. as theft. Thucidydes, the first historian, confirms this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thucydides
For in early times the Hellenes and the barbarians of the coast and islands, as communication by sea became more common, were tempted to turn pirates, under the conduct of their most powerful men; the motives being to serve their own cupidity and to support the needy. They would fall upon a town unprotected by walls, and consisting of a mere collection of villages, and would plunder it; indeed, this came to be the main source of their livelihood, no disgrace being yet attached to such an achievement, but even some glory. An illustration of this is furnished by the honour with which some of the inhabitants of the continent still regard a successful marauder, and by the question we find the old poets everywhere representing the people as asking of voyagers- "Are they pirates?"- as if those who are asked the question would have no idea of disclaiming the imputation, or their interrogators of reproaching them for it. The same rapine prevailed also by land.
(emphasis mine).
The Israelites also followed this practice of acquiring property thru the bow and the sword, as is documented in their own histories, as did Muhammed and the Muslims.
It took a thousand years or so to fully work out the implications of 'thou shalt not steal.' I think that's where we are now when it comes to taxation. We don't yet recognize that to take from x to give to y, solely for the purpose of redistribution, is theft, and is wrong. But eventually we will get there. It's inexorable logic.
Sorry but that is way too complicated to read, I say taxes are still theft from my pocket when they're used for gov't programs I don't personally benefit from.
Can there be a more crystal clear demonstration of willful ignorance than that statement?
If this is the case, Mr. Schiff may be an knowledgeable economist but he is sorely ignorant of government or law. So let's put this taxes as theft meme to rest once and for all.
Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property,without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
DUE PROCESS
It means according to the law of the land, including the Constitution with its guaranties and the legislative enactments and rules duly made by its authority, so far as they are consistent with constitutional limitations." Ekern v. McGovern, 154 Wis. 157, 142 N.W. 595, 620 (1913), cases cited.
Article 1 - The Legislative Branch Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Amendment 16 - Status of Income Tax Clarified
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
Now whether Mr. Schiff or anyone else likes the above facts is irrelevant. Within our constitutional framework, the imposition of taxes is a power held by Congress, granted by the Constitution and as such cannot in any way shape for form give rise to an illegal seizure of property, i.e., theft. The argument is a non-starter.
Now shall we move on?
No.
You left out the 18 enumerated spending powers that go along with taxation.
Section 1 Article 8 (in full) you lefties conveniently leave out the pertinent information.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the
Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Can there be a more crystal clear demonstration of willful ignorance than that statement?
Nowhere in the constitution does it allow for government to take from you to give to me. In fact, you as an individual are only entitled to one personal thing from the government....a defense attorney.
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