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Either you don't understand what IS whining or you've mistakenly responded to my post. But thanks for letting us know that you understand, that if republicans succeed in holding tax cuts for up to $250K hostage to serve those who make more than that, we will see Clinton rates.
Hostage or not, the tax "increase" is nothing more than a return to the Clinton rates, which were still low by historical measure.
AND higher ER charges. So we're back to which is least expensive. Obviously, those experiencing the least expense are those who don't pay for the services they receive. Who is that?
No, higher ER charges AND higher charge for everything else as well which also affects insurance premiums.
The OP is smart enough to know that under the Clinton tax rates he will be paying about $3000 more per year in income tax. The OP actually took his (lower middle class) tax returns in ~2003 and ran the numbers using 2000 (pre BTC) 1040s and found that out that he saved thousands under the BTCs. The OP was actually able to figure out that referred to these as "Bush Tax Cuts for the Rich" were nothing but liars.
I'm OK with letting them expire, even though I don't know where I'll come up with the extra money. It will be worth it when much of the working population that lacks basic math skills sees their first paycheck in JA. Heck, that's about the only entertainment I'll be able to afford, better enjoy it.
I've resigned my self to the Obama tax increase. Getting back to the topic...where will you cut spending in order to pay your "share"?
28%x43850+(50000-43850)X28%=$8299 due under the "Clinton Rates" you propose returning us to.
2012 rates
17,400x10% + (50,000-17,400)x15%=$6630
What I have not allowed for is the increase in standard deductions and personal exemptions as part of the BTC. So, if we revert to the Clinton rates, for the same gross income you will be paying tax (at your top marginal rate) on several thousand more dollars. IIRC (and I will confirm this) we get a combined exemption of about $11k now vs $7000 under Clinton, a difference of $4000. $4000 at a marginal rate of 28% is $1120, so your "Clinton rate" tax is $9419, vs $6630 as of now under the Bush rates. A difference of $2789. And this is only allowing for the personal exemption difference, not the standard deduction, which is also several thousand dollars larger under the "Bush Tax Cuts" rates.
Let me know when I can help you with math again. Can I ask you for help with art appreciation, should the need arise?
Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 12-14-2012 at 01:44 PM..
Tell ya what, I'll dig up my old tax returns (if I have them that far back), or see if the 2000 tax tables and deductions are available on line.
I'm not interested in delay for something that will never happen. Just show me an estimate. I'm curious and especially consider one of many gems posted by you such as this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
What I question is will Obama toss 98% of the country under the bus if he doesn't get his opportunity to punish the 2%? Seems pretty petty to hurt everyone just because you can't take revenge on your political opponents.
PS. I see you edited the post following my response. So, let us look at it:
Quote:
eta:
lets assume an adjusted gross income of $50k in our example.
28%x43850+(50000-43850)X28%=$8299 due under the "Clinton Rates" you propose returning us to.
2012 rates
17,400x10% + (50,000-17,400)x15%=$6630
What I have not allowed for is the increase in standard deductions and personal exemptions as part of the BTC. So, if we revert to the Clinton rates, for the same gross income you will be paying tax (at your top marginal rate) on several thousand more dollars. IIRC (and I will confirm this) we get a combined exemption of about $11k now vs $7000 under Clinton, a difference of $4000. $4000 at a marginal rate of 28% is $1120, so your "Clinton rate" tax is $9419, vs $6630 as of now under the Bush rates. A difference of $2789. And this is only allowing for the personal exemption difference, not the standard deduction, which is also several thousand dollars larger under the "Bush Tax Cuts" rates.
Let me know when I can help you with math again. Can I ask you for help with art appreciation, should the need arise?
In other words, you're doing the same math that Tax Foundation debunked five years ago.
"Recently an incorrect comparison of income taxes under Presidents Clinton and Bush has been making the rounds of the internet, showing up in forwarded e-mails and on numerous blogs and message boards."
Is there no life in republicanism beyond reliance on chain emails and letters?
And, for obvious reasons, you've no issue with this (and the feeling is mutual)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn
Hostage or not, the tax "increase" is nothing more than a return to the Clinton rates, which were still low by historical measure.
BUT... if your tears are more than those that belong on a crocodile, educate self on a simple fact: Obama wants to keep Bush tax rates under $250K incomes.
Last edited by EinsteinsGhost; 12-14-2012 at 02:09 PM..
I'm not interested in delay for something that will never happen. Just show me an estimate. I'm curious and especially consider one of many gems posted by you such as this:
OK, I've done some more digging. Under Clinton the personal exemption was $2800 per person and the std deduction was $7350 (married/jointly). These were raised as part of the "Bush Tax Cuts", they are now $3800 and 11,900 respectively.
So, lets go through the math again.
Assuming gross income of $70k, and married filing jointly, currently (under the so-called Bush Tax Cuts) you will pay:
Taxable amount:
$70,000 gross-(2*3800)-11,900=$51,400
Tax:
17,400x.10+(51400-17400)*.15=$6,840 tax due
If Obama vetos the extension of the cuts, and we pay the Clinton rates, you'll pay:
Taxable amount:
$70,000-(2*2800)-7350=57050
Tax:
43850*15%+(57050-43850)*.28=$10,273 tax due under the "Clinton Rates" if the BTC expires
A difference of $3433. On a gross income of $70k. Yeah, the Bush Tax Cuts only benefitted the rich.
And if you believe that the Bush Tax Cuts only helped the rich, I have some money that I need to transfer from Nigeria, just send me your bank account number and I'll split it with you.
Again, let me know whenever you need help with math. I'll do what I can.
OK, I've done some more digging. Under Clinton the personal exemption was $2800 per person and the std deduction was $7350 (married/jointly). These were raised as part of the "Bush Tax Cuts", they are now $3800 and 11,900 respectively.
So, lets go through the math again.
Assuming gross income of $70k, and married filing jointly, currently (under the so-called Bush Tax Cuts) you will pay:
Taxable amount:
$70,000 gross-(2*3800)-11,900=$51,400
Tax:
17,400x.10+(51400-17400)*.15=$6,840 tax due
If Obama vetos the extension of the cuts, and we pay the Clinton rates, you'll pay:
Taxable amount:
$70,000-(2*2800)-7350=57050
Tax:
43850*15%+(57050-43850)*.28=$10,273 tax due under the "Clinton Rates" if the BTC expires
A difference of $3433. On a gross income of $70k. Yeah, the Bush Tax Cuts only benefitted the rich.
And if you believe that the Bush Tax Cuts only helped the rich, I have some money that I need to transfer from Nigeria, just send me your bank account number and I'll split it with you.
Again, let me know whenever you need help with math. I'll do what I can.
See above.
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