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Old 01-04-2013, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,541,572 times
Reputation: 27720

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragontales View Post
These numbers must be fudged! There are other things at play. Too many other factors. Sale numbers are manipulated by the gov't like the job numbers right before the Nov election. Those mainstream polls were skewed and bias. Fox news and Rove has Mitten winning by a landslide.
Follow the BDI (Baltic Dry Index) and port traffic for raw numbers that can't be fudged.

Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008 | ZeroHedge
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:55 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
1,290 posts, read 2,041,756 times
Reputation: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Follow the BDI (Baltic Dry Index) and port traffic for raw numbers that can't be fudged.

Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008 | ZeroHedge
So you said it's not a TREND. Others gave you a chart showing that it is TREND. But you've ignore that argument now?
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:55 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,346,065 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
And 3 years later still weak..QE Infinity guarantees $80 billion a month pumped into the system.
It's not "weak", it's anemic and being propped up by the Fed for 3.5 years now.
Call it what you want. The fact is, it IS a recovery. The fact that we have tons more overseas competition today than we've ever had during past recoveries has a HUGE impact - that's just a fact of life. In days past the 3rd World countries were relatively backward and didn't compete with us. Today that's not the case - the rest of the world is in the process of modernizing and consequently they are serious competition for us in regards to manufacturing so it makes a recovery harder and longer. NOTHING will change that. It's just the way it is. It's a new world - that's just a fact and there's not much we can do to change that. It doesn't mean we're not recovering.

Ken
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:59 AM
 
8,091 posts, read 5,916,023 times
Reputation: 1578
QE til the end of time
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:03 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,346,065 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Follow the BDI (Baltic Dry Index) and port traffic for raw numbers that can't be fudged.

Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008 | ZeroHedge
So the BDI dropped.
So what? It bounces around. It was lower than is today back in mid-Sept and again back in early-Feb. It goes down then comes back up. That's it's nature - it's a volatile index.
So what?

BDIY Chart - Baltic Dry Index - Bloomberg

Ken
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:04 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,346,065 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
QE til the end of time
Nope. Wrong again.

Fed eyes end of quantitative easing programme | Interactive Investor

Ken
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,541,572 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragontales View Post
So you said it's not a TREND. Others gave you a chart showing that it is TREND. But you've ignore that argument now?
No, I said one month is not a trend.
That BDI chart in the link goes back to 2002.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:08 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,346,065 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
No, I said one month is not a trend.
That BDI chart in the link goes back to 2002.
The link I provided on Retail Sales is NOT "one month". The data shown goes back to 1992.

Ken
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:08 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
1,290 posts, read 2,041,756 times
Reputation: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
No, I said one month is not a trend.
That BDI chart in the link goes back to 2002.
but again, it's NOT just ONE month.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,541,572 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
Call it what you want. The fact is, it IS a recovery. The fact that we have tons more overseas competition today than we've ever had during past recoveries has a HUGE impact - that's just a fact of life. In days past the 3rd World countries were relatively backward and didn't compete with us. Today that's not the case - the rest of the world is in the process of modernizing and consequently they are serious competition for us in regards to manufacturing so it makes a recovery harder and longer. NOTHING will change that. It's just the way it is. It's a new world - that's just a fact and there's not much we can do to change that. It doesn't mean we're not recovering.

Ken
You personally can state all the "facts" you want. Not everyone in America is doing well in spite of the government and retail reports. There's just a lot more to it than monthly government reports and much of it is localized.
I just don't jump up and down each month nor do I doom and gloom about it.

I have no fantasy ideas that we're going back to the bubble days but many do.
I've adjusted and adapted. This is not like the inflation/recession days of past. This one is different and "recovery" will be different as well.

And FWIW I never said we didn't recover. It really depends on your ideas of what a recovery is.
I think the Fed prevented another Great Depression with the bailouts.

And I also think the Fed needs to adjust to this new world as well in terms of spending and taxing.
We're not rolling in dough anymore.
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