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Old 01-30-2013, 11:25 PM
 
2,096 posts, read 4,776,513 times
Reputation: 1272

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Last night, I was reading Ray Kurzweil's latest book, How To Create A Mind, and after reading something in the book he wrote about copying a human being, I did a thought experiment.

Let's say a secret machine that can copy any object was unveiled.

How it would work would be the object to be copied would be put in a chamber, the location of each atom in the object and what element it is would be charted by the machine's computer.

The copy machine would have batches of every naturally occurring element, which it would use to replicate every atom in an object much like a printer has different ink colors to replicate every color in a picture.

The copy would then be created with the information scanned from the original object in the chamber on the other side of the machine.

Let's say Katy Perry (I wanted to make this thought experiment a bit sexy) offered to have a copy of herself made. She steps in the machine, it scans every single atom in her body including her brain and there is a copy of her made in the other chamber.

Now let's assume the scientists operating the machine are both identical twins, and blindfold both Katy Perry and Katy Perry 2 and lead them outside.

Some people might say that Katy Perry 2 would be inanimate and merely statue-like, but I don't see why that would be. If Katy 2 is a perfect atom-to-atom copy of the original Katy, not only should she be alive and her body and mind running all the same processes as Katy 1's, but she would in fact have the exact same likes, dislikes, opinions, and even memories the original Katy Perry has.

That's right, even though Katy Perry 2 was created moments ago, she would actually share all the exact same memories as Katy 1 up to the point she was copied from her. If that sounds weird, keep in mind even Katy 1's body and brain are made up almost completely of different atoms than Katy 1's body 10 years ago.

Unless you made some kind of marking to signify Katy 2 was the clone, there would be absolutely no way to tell which Katy was the original. Katy 2 would wrongly insist she was the original, and Katy 1 would rightly insist Katy 2 was the copy.

Katy's consciousness would not be linked I don't think to Katy 2's, but in a certain sense there would be indeed two different Katy Perrys, since they would have the same experiences and memories up to Katy 2's point of creation.

However, their experiences and to some extent their looks and personalities would diverge over time. Let's say Katy 2's friend successfully convinced her to follow in the footsteps of her (and Katy 1's) "Part Of Me" video and she decided to enlist for Afghanistan.

Many of Katy 2's friends die in the war, and she develops PSTD. Certainly this is going to cause her personality to diverge from Katy 1 in many ways.

The weird thing about it is that even though our brains are like a river in the sense they are continuously replacing the individual atoms they are made of, we still retain the same consciousness. That to me proves that humans are not equivalent to their bodies, and it suggests that it's not the substrate of our flesh that makes us conscious but rather the pattern itself.

Thus, I think artificial intelligence is possible, and I think we could turn our brains over time into digital from and essentially live forever.

And I also think if we had a powerful and accurate enough 3D printer, we could in theory make an infinite number of copies of Katy Perry, or anyone else. But they would all be unique people with unique consciousness despite all sharing the same memories as their 'parent' up to their point of creation.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:27 PM
 
2,096 posts, read 4,776,513 times
Reputation: 1272
Oh yeah and if Katy 2 was indeed not alive, this would be pretty good evidence in the existence of God/souls.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:14 AM
 
Location: The Nanny State of MD
1,438 posts, read 1,146,151 times
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Seriously? You wanna live forever? Cause I don't.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:57 AM
 
3,598 posts, read 4,949,986 times
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My only problem with this thought experiment is that we do NOT always preserve the same consciousness that we had even 10 years ago. Over a long enough time period, our original memories distort and we are just remembering the memory of the experience and not the real, original experience. We remember ourselves reminiscing about the experience and THAT becomes our new reality... it creates a new narrative in our brain which changes our perceptions of our experiences. This is why 1st person testimony from a witness is so unreliable in court cases. We trick ourselves into thinking something may have happened when it is later proven that it didn't... and vice versa.

It's also why PTSD can be a big problem for soldiers coming home from war because people suffering from post-traumatic stress are reliving their stress from the memory of the memories. It's called persevering and becomes like a movie that plays in an endless loop in brain.

But yeah, if technology were to advance to that point, we could conceivably live forever. Many sci-fi books have already been written using this very premise.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:27 AM
 
Location: Maryland
7,814 posts, read 6,392,163 times
Reputation: 9974
It would only be a matter of time until the terrorists started cloning Lady Gagas.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:12 AM
 
2,096 posts, read 4,776,513 times
Reputation: 1272
Quote:
Originally Posted by logline View Post
My only problem with this thought experiment is that we do NOT always preserve the same consciousness that we had even 10 years ago. Over a long enough time period, our original memories distort and we are just remembering the memory of the experience and not the real, original experience. We remember ourselves reminiscing about the experience and THAT becomes our new reality... it creates a new narrative in our brain which changes our perceptions of our experiences. This is why 1st person testimony from a witness is so unreliable in court cases. We trick ourselves into thinking something may have happened when it is later proven that it didn't... and vice versa.
.
It becomes imperfect and distorted, sure. But you are still you. The old you has changed, but it hasn't ceased to exist.
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:38 PM
 
2,096 posts, read 4,776,513 times
Reputation: 1272
Quote:
Originally Posted by personwhoisaperson View Post
Seriously? You wanna live forever? Cause I don't.
Sure. Well a very long time at least. More than a puny eighty or ninety years. I love my family and friends so why not?
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:53 PM
 
3,345 posts, read 3,074,946 times
Reputation: 1725
Quote:
Originally Posted by belmont22 View Post
Last night, I was reading Ray Kurzweil's latest book, How To Create A Mind, and after reading something in the book he wrote about copying a human being, I did a thought experiment.

Let's say a secret machine that can copy any object was unveiled.

How it would work would be the object to be copied would be put in a chamber, the location of each atom in the object and what element it is would be charted by the machine's computer.

The copy machine would have batches of every naturally occurring element, which it would use to replicate every atom in an object much like a printer has different ink colors to replicate every color in a picture.

The copy would then be created with the information scanned from the original object in the chamber on the other side of the machine.

Let's say Katy Perry (I wanted to make this thought experiment a bit sexy) offered to have a copy of herself made. She steps in the machine, it scans every single atom in her body including her brain and there is a copy of her made in the other chamber.

Now let's assume the scientists operating the machine are both identical twins, and blindfold both Katy Perry and Katy Perry 2 and lead them outside.

Some people might say that Katy Perry 2 would be inanimate and merely statue-like, but I don't see why that would be. If Katy 2 is a perfect atom-to-atom copy of the original Katy, not only should she be alive and her body and mind running all the same processes as Katy 1's, but she would in fact have the exact same likes, dislikes, opinions, and even memories the original Katy Perry has.

That's right, even though Katy Perry 2 was created moments ago, she would actually share all the exact same memories as Katy 1 up to the point she was copied from her. If that sounds weird, keep in mind even Katy 1's body and brain are made up almost completely of different atoms than Katy 1's body 10 years ago.

Unless you made some kind of marking to signify Katy 2 was the clone, there would be absolutely no way to tell which Katy was the original. Katy 2 would wrongly insist she was the original, and Katy 1 would rightly insist Katy 2 was the copy.

Katy's consciousness would not be linked I don't think to Katy 2's, but in a certain sense there would be indeed two different Katy Perrys, since they would have the same experiences and memories up to Katy 2's point of creation.

However, their experiences and to some extent their looks and personalities would diverge over time. Let's say Katy 2's friend successfully convinced her to follow in the footsteps of her (and Katy 1's) "Part Of Me" video and she decided to enlist for Afghanistan.

Many of Katy 2's friends die in the war, and she develops PSTD. Certainly this is going to cause her personality to diverge from Katy 1 in many ways.

The weird thing about it is that even though our brains are like a river in the sense they are continuously replacing the individual atoms they are made of, we still retain the same consciousness. That to me proves that humans are not equivalent to their bodies, and it suggests that it's not the substrate of our flesh that makes us conscious but rather the pattern itself.

Thus, I think artificial intelligence is possible, and I think we could turn our brains over time into digital from and essentially live forever.

And I also think if we had a powerful and accurate enough 3D printer, we could in theory make an infinite number of copies of Katy Perry, or anyone else. But they would all be unique people with unique consciousness despite all sharing the same memories as their 'parent' up to their point of creation.
Please, lets find a much better, more talented example which actually contributes positively to society..... like say Bob Dylan or Bruce Springsteen
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