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You don't get it. I am a fiscal conservative and it really offends me to be ripped off by the health care industry the way we are.
Anyway ... ciao
I'm a true conservative in every sense of the word and I understand fully that the state of the health care industry is in the gutter for many reasons. But a single payer system, what you're advocating, is not the answer. If you can stay on topic, I'd be happy to discuss that.
I'm a true conservative in every sense of the word and I understand fully that the state of the health care industry is in the gutter for many reasons. But a single payer system, what you're advocating, is not the answer. If you can stay on topic, I'd be happy to discuss that.
Who appointed you moderator
Look ... the rest of the developed world uses single payer and they deliver high quality health care for half the cost that we do. Now, if you can come up with a better system that will cut our bills in half then I am all ears.
Canada provides medical care that is equal to American (if not better), and they do so with a lower expenditure, so there. And since they provide 100 % care to 100 % of their residents, and it is a single-payer system, there's your answer.
SO THERE! You got me!
Canada absolutely does not provide superior healthcare. I don't really even know how to respond to your post as it lacks context, and it your subjective opinion.
Look ... the rest of the developed world uses single payer and they deliver high quality health care for half the cost that we do. Now, if you can come up with a better system that will cut our bills in half then I am all ears.
I'm not claiming to be a moderator but I'm not going to get into these stupid back and forths that are off topic or include personal attacks, that's all I'm saying.
It's not my job to come up with a better system, it's that of our Congresspeople. You also cannot say that, say, the Europeans provide a better system of health care in any form. It's very different, but that does not mean it's better. The cost is probably not less, either, since their taxes are sky high over there. I'm not saying health care is the reason a lot of those countries are failing but obviously they are doing something wrong fiscally. A lot of people wait a very long time to get care, even for emergent issues, and many are allowed to die b/c they are not deemed a worthy expense due to gov't rules about who can have care (sort of like the death panels that are always joked about). That is not the kind of country I want to live in. They have no control over their health care whatsoever.
Canada absolutely does not provide superior healthcare. I don't really even know how to respond to your post as it lacks context, and it your subjective opinion.
I am saying superior because people live to a longer age in Canada, and no one is excluded from health care. Also Canada has a lower infant and mother maternity rate which is a primary measure of healthcare for a country.
On most measures of survival from cancer and things like that, Canada and the U.S. are fairly equivalent, sometimes one is a bit better, sometimes the other.
In the U.S. socioeconomic status has a huge effect on the healthcare you receive. In Canada, everyone receives healthcare. It is not reserved only for people who can afford it---that is a superior system, unless you think lack of access to healthcare makes a system superior.
I am saying superior because people live to a longer age in Canada, and no one is excluded from health care. Also Canada has a lower infant and mother maternity rate which is a primary measure of healthcare for a country.
And how many c-sections are done there? Probably not near as many as are done here. That is arguably the single best reason for a higher than necessary mortality rate for moms and babies. Try watching "The Business of Being Born" for more information on that.
Quote:
On most measures of survival from cancer and things like that, Canada and the U.S. are fairly equivalent, sometimes one is a bit better, sometimes the other.
Do you have a source for this claim?
Quote:
In the U.S. socioeconomic status has a huge effect on the healthcare you receive. In Canada, everyone receives healthcare. It is not reserved only for people who can afford it---that is a superior system, unless you think lack of access to healthcare makes a system superior.
Right, b/c it's included in people's TAXES. Everyone is paying for it. Here, the poor do not pay for it at all. They go to the ER when they have a cold or a backache. Who pays for that? The hospital eats it and the amount they bill insurance increases to make up for it. Here, the gov't pays out more to poor people to live in the form of subsidies for everything under the sun, they get money back each year when they do their taxes, too. The gov't literally is paying for these folks to live. They literally have no skin in the game. Do poor people pay taxes in Canada?
And how many c-sections are done there? Probably not near as many as are done here. That is arguably the single best reason for a higher than necessary mortality rate for moms and babies. Try watching "The Business of Being Born" for more information on that.
Do you have a source for this claim?
Right, b/c it's included in people's TAXES. Everyone is paying for it. Here, the poor do not pay for it at all. They go to the ER when they have a cold or a backache. Who pays for that? The hospital eats it and the amount they bill insurance increases to make up for it. Here, the gov't pays out more to poor people to live in the form of subsidies for everything under the sun, they get money back each year when they do their taxes, too. The gov't literally is paying for these folks to live. They literally have no skin in the game. Do poor people pay taxes in Canada?
That's why we have transfer payments and government safety nets. If someone is too poor to pay for their own healthcare, those who are better off help them out in the form of taxes. I don't know the tax rates in Canada, but I believe they are higher than in the U.S. at all levels.
Here is one source. It actually says Canada has better health outcomes. After crunching the numbers from 38 studies the researchers found that :"The death and disease rates for patients in Canada are the same or lower than those for people with similar diagnoses treated in the United States — even though per capita health-care spending is higher south of the border."
I'm not claiming to be a moderator but I'm not going to get into these stupid back and forths that are off topic or include personal attacks, that's all I'm saying.
It's not my job to come up with a better system, it's that of our Congresspeople. You also cannot say that, say, the Europeans provide a better system of health care in any form. It's very different, but that does not mean it's better. The cost is probably not less, either, since their taxes are sky high over there. I'm not saying health care is the reason a lot of those countries are failing but obviously they are doing something wrong fiscally. A lot of people wait a very long time to get care, even for emergent issues, and many are allowed to die b/c they are not deemed a worthy expense due to gov't rules about who can have care (sort of like the death panels that are always joked about). That is not the kind of country I want to live in. They have no control over their health care whatsoever.
You are mixing a lot of stuff up here.
First, I never said that their system was better. I said they provide equivalent quality health care for half the cost. And the cost is less by whatever yardstick you choose to use.
Second, there is not a direct correlation between taxes and health care. For example, both Switzerland and Germany use a health insurance model rather than a tax model to pay for health care. But they still deliver at half the cost.
Third, you bring up the issue of people being allowed to die. That really isn't true. What is true is that health care is rationed in every country including the USA. How that gets rationed differs but it happens. If you have plenty of money you can buy more health care whether you are in the UK or the USA (or another country). That is just a fact of life (or death). For example, in the UK you can buy private insurance to 'top up' the NHS. But only 10% of people do it even though it is cheap by US standards.
Can't comment on Canada, but I DO know Australia does, for a LOT less. no system is entirely flawless, but given the choice, Australian Health Care wins every time. There is NO good reason why a nation with as many resources, and innovative minds as America, should have such a flawed system. The US has the best minds and technology on earth, there should be no reason why they can't have a HC system that the rest of the world would envy.
First, I never said that their system was better. I said they provide equivalent quality health care for half the cost. And the cost is less by whatever yardstick you choose to use.
Second, there is not a direct correlation between taxes and health care. For example, both Switzerland and Germany use a health insurance model rather than a tax model to pay for health care. But they still deliver at half the cost.
Third, you bring up the issue of people being allowed to die. That really isn't true. What is true is that health care is rationed in every country including the USA. How that gets rationed differs but it happens. If you have plenty of money you can buy more health care whether you are in the UK or the USA (or another country). That is just a fact of life (or death). For example, in the UK you can buy private insurance to 'top up' the NHS. But only 10% of people do it even though it is cheap by US standards.
That is not the case in Canada. Although you could I guess go to another country and pay for healthcare. There is no system for paying doctors out -of -your pocket for essential services. For non-essential services, like having moles removed you would pay out-of-pocket.
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