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You can't really make that assumption, though. I'm not saying there aren't flaws in the system, but forcing people to buy ins and setting things up so that costs will rise all over the place is absolutely not the answer. I would rather have single payer than this monstrosity, as at least that would address the real issue.
The more people that buy into it, especially the young and healthy, the lower the costs of insurance will go,
since more people are paying into it, who are not making claims on it. It looks like the largest group of uninsured are younger, healthy people, if the postings above are true. Although I still don't believe they don't want insurance, it's just they can't afford it.
Well someone just posted some stats on who is uninsured. Someone without insurance, unless they are wealthy, will simply put the burden of their healthcare costs on other people, if they become catastrophically sick or have an accident. They are getting away without paying their fair share. If they can't afford premiums, the government will help them.
Oh, so there is a subsection of the so-called poor that you think should have some skin in the game. I thought the whole "fair share" meme was reserved just for the "rich."
I'm not being bossy. ?? Just tired of hearing the same spiel over and over that liberals think they have the right to tell people how to spend their money.
What I have been saying repeatedly is that this WILL NOT help small business owners BECAUSE they are middle class and their businesses are their livelihood. It will make much less of a difference for large corporations that already provide health ins, it may not impact them at all, but for the "little guy" like the majority of the US, this will be detrimental, both b/c of the impact on business and the impact the business changes will have on the employees.
How much additional cost do you believe Obamacare will add for small businesses---those with less than 50 full-time employees? You said you have a small business so you must have looked into this.
The more people that buy into it, especially the young and healthy, the lower the costs of insurance will go,
since more people are paying into it, who are not making claims on it. It looks like the largest group of uninsured are younger, healthy people, if the postings above are true. Although I still don't believe they don't want insurance, it's just they can't afford it.
But don't you see how that completely interferes with the free market? If you just leave people alone, things will all play out as they naturally would and prices will adjust accordingly. It's not up to you to tell people that they have to buy ins just so it will lower the cost for people like you. That's asking them to take the hit purely for your own benefit, which is selfish and wrong.
Well then I assume you're wealthy and can pay the costs of a catastrophic illness or accident.
Money isn't really the issue. I don't have insurance because it is cheaper to pay out of pocket. A few years ago I needed stitches and my cost was less than $300 which is still cheaper than insurance for the year would have been. As long as I stay out of fights my risk is pretty low.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint
Well someone just posted some stats on who is uninsured. Someone without insurance, unless they are wealthy, will simply put the burden of their healthcare costs on other people, if they become catastrophically sick or have an accident. They are getting away without paying their fair share. If they can't afford premiums, the government will help them.
Where does fair come into play here? Plenty of uninsured people don't consume health services, but if they have to go to the hospital they still have to pay.
Thanks for the link. While it looks like part of the reason for that rate is methodological, and part of it might be because the U.S. and Canada have more low-weight premature infants that actually make it to delivery, it's clearly something both countries need to improve.
I also never said Canada had the best health care system in the world. There are probably other nations that are better. I simply said that they had outcomes that were about equal to the U.S., at about half the cost.
Sure, it is what it is. I wasn't trying to downplay Canadian healthcare.
How much additional cost do you believe Obamacare will add for small businesses---those with less than 50 full-time employees? You said you have a small business so you must have looked into this.
For our business, the costs we have had estimated are about $20k/yr in fines. We only bottom lined $30k last year. We also do not have 50 employees (which, it's calculated on full time equivalents/FTEs, which takes into consideration all hours worked, not just those who work full time/over 30 hours) but b/c one of the owners has a share of over 30 restaurants, all of the employees are being added together and treated as one company for the purpose of calculating ins requirements. We only have 15 employees at our store and 10 or 11 of those work over 30 hours a week, including managers. It was a surprise to us that it would be figured this way since our LLC is separate from the other groups. For our store, it will be devastating if changes are not made internally, such as price increases, firings or cuts to hours (which would mean running labor REALLY tight, we are already doing well in that area). Our food cost might go up as well since those people further down the line may have increased costs to their companies. My guess is that the prices will have to go up across the board. Being quick service, this could make us lose enough customers that we would have to close the doors, and then all those 15 people are unemployed, including us. The only people who have ins are me and my husband (I'm on his plan) and the cost was almost $11k last year for a high deductible family plan, so we obviously cannot afford to pay that for each employee. Since we have ownership, we have to pay taxes on that amount, just FYI, so already we are getting screwed b/c of the tax code and how it relates to healthcare. Thankfully we had enough medical bills to get just over the threshold to write them off (excluding health ins premiums), and that's only b/c we finished paying the bills associated with the birth of our child last year (she was born in 2010).
ETA: The amount we "bottom line" each year is split between the owners, and since it's an LLC, the profits and losses pass through to the owners. We had to claim however much on our taxes last year but it's not like we are seeing that as dividends right now since there is still a loan to be paid/retained earnings. So take the $30k and take away Obamacare fines and that leaves $10k to be split. We would get about $2k of that. So what is the point in even owning a business?? Even if profits were better, and we owned all of it, with the fine, it makes it not worth it to jump through the hoops of ownership as opposed to just being an employee. It would make small businesses with lots of employees (such as restaurants) available to own only by the very rich.
Seems like the closer we get to 2014, when everything really takes affect, the more we see how right we were about Obamacare. You naysayers out may have to eat a lot of crow. Much of what we said was coming, and many denied is actually coming.
Small businesses will be hurt. Jobs will be lost. Curious to see what affect this is going to have on the economy and the unemployment numbers next year. I cant imagine it will be good. I think we all are going to be affected by this, and mostly in a negative way. Only time will tell who the ill informed voters pin the blame on. Will they continue to say oh its just the employers fault or this rich guys fault, or will they finally wake up and see that the government is not the solution to our damn problems.
Every other story I read about Obamacare, I get sickened more by the words I still hear plainly in my mind, "we have to pass the bill, so you can find out whats in it". That evil, twisted woman. How she can even sleep at night, how people can look up to her can not be comprehended.
To cover the additional cost would mean increasing income by 1.35%. Perhaps a price increase of that amount would be acceptable to the company's customers?
Under the law, employers with more than 50 employees must either offer qualifying health insurance to all full time employees or pay a fine of $2,000 per worker each year. Currently, Baked in the Sun does not offer health insurance to 90 of its 95 employees, which means that owners Rachel Shein and Steve Pilarski face a difficult choice: They can offer health insurance to their employees and figure out how to finance the additional cost; they can pay a fine for not offering health insurance; or they trim their full time workforce below 50 employees so that they can avoid both the cost of offering insurance and the cost of the penalty.
Baked in the Sun’s owners estimate that the cost of offering insurance will run about $200 per employee per month, or about $216,000 per year to cover all 90 currently uninsured employees, of which the employer will pay half and the employee would pay the rest. Their annual revenues are $8 million, but because food service is extremely low margin, only about $200,000 of that is profit, meaning that financing the $108,000 employer half of the additional coverage could cost them half of their yearly profits.
Uh, I have some issues with that, primarily that it is factually incorrect.
"...with more than 50 employees...."
That is determined in a really bizarre way. It's based on payroll hours and "full-time equivalent employees." Okay, so this article claims there are 95 employees, so if their weekly payroll hours divided by 30 is 50 or more, then they are a "large employer" and it it is 49 or less, then they are a "small employer."
One employee works part-time 24 hours per week, while another works part-time 8 hours per week, that equals 32 hours which is equal to 1 full-time employee equivalent.
Effectively, if their weekly payroll is greater than 1,500 hours, then that means they have at least 50 full-time equivalent employees......1,500 hours / 30 hours = 50 FTEEs
I also have an issue with this.....
"Baked in the Sun’s owners estimate that the cost of offering insurance will run about $200 per employee per month,....of which the employer will pay half and the employee would pay the rest."
That, is just plain wrong.
Whoever wrote that article has their head up their ass.
The maximum amount any employee can pay by law is 9.5% of their 2013 W-2 Wages.
Okay, so let's say 32 hours per week at $8/hour = $13,312 * 9.5% = $1,264.64 = $105.38 per month.
That just happened to work out right.
However, starting in 2015 employer's will be using the MAGI which is the modified adjusted gross income for the household.
So let's say our hypothetical employee is married and the spouse earns $17,500 per year...then...
They're stupid, because they don't know how or refuse to ask for help from devious bastards like me, but that's something you see a lot in small businesses, especially family-owned businesses.
Any way, that's why I'm here. I provide a quality service. I already mentioned one of my clients who owns a restaurant and what she did (max hours is 24 per week). For two of my other clients, I told them to "specialize."
Get it?
No?
Look, it's so freaking simple. I got the answer for Steve and Rachel.
Have their attorney set up an S-Corp, LLC, LLP or LP and then split off the operations of the bakery.
You follow?
Steve and Rachel should set up a Production Operation and then a Distribution Operation.
So, what, maybe 45 employees are involved in production, um, you know, baking. Then the other 40 employees are involved in distribution.
Obamacrap™ nonsense defeated.
Yeah, see, Liberals make life more difficult for everyone, so it's very fortunate there are Big Brain Ultra-Conservatives like me who know how to combat Liberal Stupidity. The one client I had we split off into three separate divisions....operations (mostly admin), manufacturing and distribution, each with 49 employees or less to get around Obamacrap™.
But don't you see how that completely interferes with the free market? If you just leave people alone, things will all play out as they naturally would and prices will adjust accordingly. It's not up to you to tell people that they have to buy ins just so it will lower the cost for people like you. That's asking them to take the hit purely for your own benefit, which is selfish and wrong.
No, for the benefit of everyone. If someone doesn't have health insurance, and becomes catastrophically ill, unless they are wealthy, the cost of that illness will be paid by the healthcare providers who will then pass the cost on to everyone. Just because someone choses not to purchase health insurance doesn't mean they will never become ill.
It's like someone who doesn't have car insurance---isn't that illegal?
When you leave the marketplace alone, you have people who don't buy health insurance, and then expect others to pay for it when they become ill. Or you have people who can't purchase health insurance at any price because the health insurance companies will not sell it to them. Or you have some people being priced out of the health insurance market. Obamacare fixes all of those issues.
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