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You are going to have to narrow down the scope of the issue.
I'm a fiscal conservative and:
1) I have zero problem with monies spent from sources like social security as that is an earned benefit. They can blow it on hookers and meth for all I care.
2) If someone is receiving money to help subsidize things, food stamps, rent subsidy etc. then it get's greyer. I see nothing wrong with someone having a drink or smoke here and there for example....or giving some money to a charity (church, youth candybar sales, fundraiser for disabled vets etc etc etc.)
3) If they are truly abusing the program like selling foodstamps to buy crack or giving all the money to a church then yeah, I have an issue with that because the purpose of the program is being violated which means that the social benefit that is intended isn't being met (kids are starving etc.)
Most fiscal cons aren't quite as militant (see #2) as is being depicted here. They tend to just not want to see abuses and fraud. (see #3)
I'm sure you can dig up a handful that want every social program abolished including school lunch assistance and other clearly beneficial and nearly impossible to abuse programs. Then again, look at all the nutjobs here....we can find some that want free everything for everyone too.
Truth is Mathguy, i don't even believe them when that say that stuff. Most of these guys are a paycheck or two from needing assistance themselves should anything unfortunate happen to them.
The whole fanatical anti-welfare routine from most of these Conservative nutjobs is a con. It doesn't even come off as legit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tworent
you don't get it there should be no welfare at all so it does not matter.
Should recipients be able to give money to a church?
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey
The Constitution doesn't guarantee the right to a rib eye steak or king crab legs, but it does guarantee the right to free exercise of religion.
If the state gave someone a cash benefit to spend as they please, then giving to a religious organization is their business and not mine.
I would hope that a person on such a limited income would opt to give their labor to their church instead of money, but that's their call to make.
FTR, the only hater in this conversation is you.
I'm a hater? What do i hate (besides lies and hypocrisy)?
First of all, your post is the most absurd posting in the thread. I had to laugh for about 2 minutes after reading it.
The constitution doesn't guarantee you a steak, but it guarantees you the right to practice your religion?
What in the hell does that even mean? That's stupid on its face.
The constitution DEFINITELY guarantees you the right to buy and eat a damn steak no less so than it guarantees you the right to practice your religion.
Just be consistent. If how they spend the money isn't your business as you say, then why do you differentiate between buying a steak and giving to a church?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon
Your pathetic troll thread was only up for 24 minutes, how much of a response did you think it was going to get? Honestly you aren't worth following that closely.
Should they be allowed to give to their church? If they have money to give then they obviously don't need welfare and should be stricken from the dole. You people whine about churches having tax exempt status, I'd think you would have your panties in a bunch over welfare recipients giving tax dollars to churches. Not only are they not paying taxes you're supporting GIVING the church tax dollars.
I'm not worth "following that closely?"
LMAO...WTF is this place...Twitter? Or high school?
Take the petulant kid stuff somewhere else. I didn't think adults came here to "follow" anyone. I follow the topics, not the people. I don't give a damn about personalities on C-D.
Worse, you didn't answer the question (not surprised).
I don't whine about churches having tax exempt status although i'll acknowledge that i don't believe they should have such a status. Nor am i complaining about aid recipients giving money to the church.
I'm simply saying that since you guys are crying like 2 year old girls about seeing welfare recipients with steaks, lobsters, lotto tix, booze and other unnecessary items that you assume they pay for with tax money, should they give that same tax money to a church as a donation?
Now how is that a troll thread? Because you're scared to answer yes or no?
Amazing how normally resolute conservatives on the topic of welfare being spent on Twinkies all of a sudden become babbling, obfuscating fools when the issue of that same welfare recipient giving money to churches comes up.
Go figure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Draper
You don't have to spend money to exercise your religion.
OP, I'm sure the people who are defending money going to churches would be up in arms if welfare money went to Mosques.
Oh hell yea...they'd be vicious at the mere thought of it.
The thing is, no one is really defending giving money to churches because they realize how inconsistent that would be, but they won't outright condemn it either.
But mention a welfare recipient buying a Ribeye, and they start slobbering at the mouth like they have rabies.
Nope. There is no Constitutional authorization for redistributing income under the guise of welfare for the individual.
Why should they be able to give a portion of other peoples money to an organization that promotes fairy tales and advocates schizophrenic behavior as well?
And how about in places where one must give 10% of their earnings to the church?
That could be a major dilemma.
Believe you me...there are a HELL OF A LOT of churches that take tithing very seriously and it would most definitely be a dilemma for a lot of people. Some of these damn churches have ATM machines inside. SMH..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Egerton
I always thought one of the basic tenets of Christianity is Alms for the Poor, so why would any Church knowingly take money from poor people - doesn't sound very Christian to me.
Hell, what's Christian about the Christian church anyway? In my eyes, NOTHING!
But that's my opinion. I'm sure most would disagree.
That said, churches take money from poor people all the time. That's actually the norm. I've yet to see a Pastor come out and publicly say that churches shouldn't take money from poor people, and that he himself won't take that money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey
For some people, tithing is part of their religion but who or what receives this money is none of my business unless it finances something illegal or immoral.
Wow...a lot of magnanimity from you all of a sudden. And of course, it's not believable by any means.
You're making an exception for religion and you know it. So why not just come out and say so?
I mean, are you saying that if you saw someone that you knew was on welfare in front of you in line at the grocery store and they had all sorts of delicacies in their cart, you'd look at it the same way that you'd look at them giving that same tax money to the church (and i don't mean the same amount...obviously)?
Nah...don't even try it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547
I know of pastors and priests who've gently sat down with really low income families and individuals and told them that they give so much time and energy to the church that they shouldn't worry about tithing as well--that they're a wonderful part of the congregation who already contributes so much that money isn't necessary. There ARE loving churches out there.
Okay, i believe you, however, that's simply not the norm. That's not even close to being the norm. Churches will take your money AND time and they'll do so regardless of how poor you are.
Are there exceptions? According to you there are a few...so ok, i buy that.
Lol...oh, so now YOU DON'T CARE about how they spend your tax money all of a sudden! When did that start?
Funny how you wingers turn any thread concerning welfare into 50 pages rather quickly, but now you don't wanna "entertain" it all of a sudden because you don't like the questioner.
Well tuff t*tty...I'm not here to make friends.
Why do you insist on lumping all conservatives in together as if it was group think? Spending too much time with your like-minded liberal friends, I guess.
This conservative thinks it's NOT OK. Welfare is for survival. End of story. Food, clothing, shelter. Nothing "extra".
That's why welfare should only be in the form of vouchers - food, clothing, shelter. No lottery tickets, no nail appointments, no charity. If you have money for those things, you're getting too much in welfare money.
Why do you insist on lumping all conservatives in together as if it was group think? Spending too much time with your like-minded liberal friends, I guess.
This conservative thinks it's NOT OK. Welfare is for survival. End of story. Food, clothing, shelter. Nothing "extra".
That's why welfare should only be in the form of vouchers - food, clothing, shelter. No lottery tickets, no nail appointments, no charity. If you have money for those things, you're getting too much in welfare money.
Ok...fair enough. And no, i don't spend time with my liberal friends...i don't talk politics away from the Internet so i'm not interested in the politics of my friends or anyone else.
However, i'd like you to make something clear...do you consider giving money to churches as one of those "extras" like the other things you listed such as nail appointments?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC
No, but who is going to enforce it? Should we start yet another government agency? You can't keep making laws you can't enforce.
Well, i wasn't talking about actual enforcement because i realize the futility of that.
I'm just asking whether or not it's ethical for a welfare recipient to give money to a church. No more, no less.
I thought this question was interesting, given the complaints that aid recipients buy lottery tix, steaks, expensive seafood, cigarettes, alcohol, and sweets.
So how about church? Surely many congregations are packed with poor welfare recipients! And it's safe to say that many of them pay a small tithe.
Any complaints about that?
you certainly brush with some very wide strokes
I dont care if they WASTE their money on expensive food...its food after all
I dont care if they spend it on sweets....they are legal
I dont care if they want to get a drink of alcohol....prohibition ended a long time ago
I dont care if they want to take a dollar and take a chance on the lottery....if they win, they will be OFF THE TAXPAYERS pocketbook
I do care if they buy/abuse ILLEGAL drugs
I do care if they get their nails done....it is not a necessary...certainly a waste
I do care about them killing themselves with cigarettes....as a former smoker, I think cigarettes should be outlawed
I dont care if they want to contribute to some organization....religous or otherwise.....
I dont think ANY ORGANIZATION (religous, union, political, social service) should be TAX FREE/EXEMPT to begin with.......tax unions...tax the dnc....tax the rnc...tax the moveon.org...tax the teaparty organizations...tax acorn....and tax the churches....no organization...ot even the boy scouts, should be tax exempyt...there is not such thing as a true non-profit
I dont care if they WASTE their money on expensive food...its food after all
I dont care if they spend it on sweets....they are legal
I dont care if they want to get a drink of alcohol....prohibition ended a long time ago
I dont care if they want to take a dollar and take a chance on the lottery....if they win, they will be OFF THE TAXPAYERS pocketbook
I do care if they buy/abuse ILLEGAL drugs
I do care if they get their nails done....it is not a necessary...certainly a waste
I do care about them killing themselves with cigarettes....as a former smoker, I think cigarettes should be outlawed
I dont care if they want to contribute to some organization....religous or otherwise.....
I dont think ANY ORGANIZATION (religous, union, political, social service) should be TAX FREE/EXEMPT to begin with.......tax unions...tax the dnc....tax the rnc...tax the moveon.org...tax the teaparty organizations...tax acorn....and tax the churches....no organization...ot even the boy scouts, should be tax exempyt...there is not such thing as a true non-profit
Nonsense. I didn't paint with wide or broad strokes. Not even close.
My question was explained, and very pointed. I made it quite clear where i was coming from.
Welfare recipient gets cash, goes to church, and makes a donation...or maybe even tithes (10%).
Should they be able to do it or not? It's that simple of a question. No prevaricating or bullsh*tting around....i asked it straightforward.
In any case, thanks for making your answer clear instead of some of the other opaque b.s. coming from most of the other posters.
And how about in places where one must give 10% of their earnings to the church?
That could be a major dilemma.
Welfare isn't earnings.
Churches shouldn't ask for 10% of welfare payments.
A church run by honest people should refuse any tithing from people on government assistance. If these people want to give, they can give their time.
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