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Old 06-17-2013, 06:28 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,083 posts, read 44,906,239 times
Reputation: 13726

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte View Post
I'll buy that.
Based on what? There is no basis for that.
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:43 PM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,951,402 times
Reputation: 2385
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
Most likely, but it depends on Canada's requirements.



Ted wouldn't have had a green card. Immediately upon his birth he would be granted US citizenship and a trip to the US embassy would have gotten a US passport. Whether his parents went that route or waited is another story.

Now, if you are saying that his mom did not spend at least 5 years in the US then you might have some standing... If that is true anyway, but I don't know anything about his mom.
that is my point...some form would have to have been filed. Im not contesting his citizenship, I'm mentioned his naturalization...History Dude says he wasnt naturalized. Im wainting and reading through the repsonses to see what news HD has on Cruz's "naturalization"...process.

If you know Cruz' process to citizenship...the process, fill me in.
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:48 PM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,951,402 times
Reputation: 2385
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Yes. That is what I am saying.


This is true for everybody, regardless of where they are born. If born on US soil the "form the mother fills out" becomes a Birth Certificate. If born overseas, the "form the mother fills out" (usually) becomes a Consular Report of Birth Abroad. In all cases, born on US soil or not, an individual must document their citizenship to access the privileges and obligations thereof.


Nothing in those sentences is true. As a natural born US citizen, Cruz never required a green card, and his father's citizen status remains completely irrelevant to his own.
Is this a path Cruz' mother could have taken, or are you saying this is the route Mrs. Cruz took? There is a diffrence in possible route and actual route taken.
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:51 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,083 posts, read 44,906,239 times
Reputation: 13726
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte View Post
How one be a national citizen at birth not a be natural born citizen?
Perhaps you should direct your question to the U.S. State Department. Their 2012 publication specifically states that a statutorily derived status of "natural born citizen" does NOT necessarily imply Constitutional eligibility for POTUS.

Furthermore, we already know that even after the 14th Amendment was ratified, existing state code denying citizenship to children born in the U.S. to transient aliens was never stricken by SCOTUS.

And... you may not be aware of the discussion, but U.S. Secretaries of State have determined that children born in the U.S. to transient alien fathers were NOT even U.S. citizens, at all.

More info...

Secretary of State Frederick Frelinghuysen determined Ludwig Hausding, though born in the U.S., was not born a U.S. citizen because he was subject to a foreign power at birth having been born to a Saxon subject alien father.

Similarly, Secretary of State Thomas Bayard determined Richard Greisser, though born in Ohio, was not born a U.S. citizen because Greisser's father, too, was an alien, a German subject at the time of Greisser's birth. Bayard specifically stated that Greisser was at birth 'subject to a foreign power,' therefore not "subject to the jurisdiction of the United States" within the meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Digest of the International Law of the United States
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:54 PM
 
26,579 posts, read 14,472,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
If you know Cruz' process to citizenship...the process, fill me in.
here's the process for registering births abroad:

Birth of U.S. Citizens Abroad

it is not naturalization.
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:58 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 7,770,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You've missed something very important. The Constitution specifically mentions "natural born citizens," not just "born citizens."
Will you define what that means? Bonus if you can point to it in case law or statute.
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:01 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 7,770,021 times
Reputation: 1443
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Yes, but when opinions are contradicted by actual facts, you get called out.

Hence, YOU were called out.
Name calling is not the same as contradicting with facts. You have no facts left. You are increasing the volume of your tantrums only because you can't do anything else. The more truth I reveal the louder and more brutal you will get.
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:02 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,083 posts, read 44,906,239 times
Reputation: 13726
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte View Post
Will you define what that means? Bonus if you can point to it in case law or statute.
I've already posted two SCOTUS cases. Please review:

Two, to start:

Kwock Jan Fat v. White (1920), the Supreme Court referred to Mr. Kwock as a natural born citizen. He was born in the United States to a father who was a native-born U.S. citizen, and his mother was a U.S. citizen by marriage

Perkins v. Elg (1939), the Supreme Court referred to Marie Elizabeth Elg as a natural born citizen. She was born in the United States to a naturalized U.S. citizen father, and her mother was a U.S. citizen by marriage.

Furthermore, there is considerable evidence that those born in the U.S. to transient aliens weren't even U.S. citizens at birth at all. In 1857, New York had a code that declared all those born in the state to be citizens except, "the children of transient aliens, and of alien public ministers and consuls, etc." And after the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment, the District of Columbia, California, Montana and South Dakota adopted similar citizenship law language as New York. The states could enact such laws because "transient aliens" were not considered "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. Connecticut adopted a law that stated, "All persons born in this State... except aliens... are and shall be deemed to be citizens”

State laws such as those were not unConstitutional for the simple reason that they only deny citizenship to those born whom another sovereign claims as its own. To be clear, denial of citizenship to those born owing allegiance to another sovereign conforms with the Constitution. NONE of those state laws were ever stricken by SCOTUS for excluding from citizenship those who owed allegiance to another sovereign.
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:03 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,083 posts, read 44,906,239 times
Reputation: 13726
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte View Post
Name calling is not the same as contradicting with facts.
I've posted facts. NUMEROUS facts.

In contrast, you get all butt-hurt when I call you out on your unsubstantiated "opinion."
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:04 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 7,770,021 times
Reputation: 1443
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
More food for thought...

Obama can’t be a "natural born citizen" because he had (admittedly) British citizenship at birth. So did the (majority… perhaps 100%?) founders of our country. They, too, were British citizens at birth… and they knew that they would not fit the NBC requirement. So… they grandfathered themselves in by a simple 'or' statement in the Constitution.
OK, that's delivered calmly so I'll try one of my questions I saved up. Do you think the courts are the proper venue to deal with this after Obama was sworn in?
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