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Personally, I hope it never occurs. In my opinion, when a country loses or waters-down its primary language, the same happens to its character, culture and primary identity. Not all elements of diversity are to be "celebrated" as is so popular in many places, especially cities.
Having spoken three languages other than English I think being bi- or multi-lingual is a plus for individuals. For countries, not so much!
Every culture evolves in time. If you look at history whole countries have changed in the passing of time. What do you think the Fouding Fathers think of our country today? I am not implying negatively. I mean as a whole society. I would think it would be like a foreign country because even the English we speak today is not the same anymore.
So change of the language, character, culture, and primary identity is not the same from the time our nation was started. It is not necesarily bad either. I venture to guess that it is difficult for you to see change from what you are used to and like. In other words what you wrote is "I do not like change". Humans resist any type of change. That is understandable. I was born in 1953. Do I wish some things of the past remained? Of course I do. However, I am open to new ideas, ways of living, etc. In my home my wife and I speak Spanish. However, when our children visit we do speak English with them even though they grew up speaking Spanish at home. Now a couple of our daughters married hispanic men that did not learn Spanish at home. That is the reason that we now speak Enlglish with all of them.
Our children got a diferent identity, not like mine that I got for living in Mexico part of my life. When my parents emmigrated to the U.S. they were right when they did not force their culture on us. They realized the U.S. was now our home and we would grow up in a different culture.
To me it is the same with Americans. There are Americans that buck changes that time brings because our country is changing. Why not enjoy those changes? I have done that. I simply keep an open mind.
At home we do live the way we want based on our upbringing but outside we enjoy diversity. It is not difficult. It is a matter of attitude. Take care.
Spanish speaking aren't the only immigrants, but we're not being told to press 1 for Spanish, 2 for English, 3 for German, 4 for French, etc. We're not being told we must learn other languages besides Spanish because other immigrants can learn English.
Spanish-speaking people aren't the only immigrants, but they are the largest group. And it is fairly common in cities like NYC for a lot of people to speak Chinese or Russian without learning English.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenfield
My wife and I were having a conversation along these lines with some friends who immigrated to the US from central America. They are having great difficulty in getting their children to speak Spanish at home. They speak English to each other, and respond to their parents in English. Our friends are afraid they will lose their ability to speak Spanish and said this is a common issue among other families they know.
That would be consistent with the American experience. The first or maybe second generation speak the mother tongue, but that's the end of it. I know a few words and phrases in my grandparents' native language but I'm not at all conversant in it.
This. Let's think for a minute: Many/most first-generation Hispanic immigrants live in an area with a substantial amount of English speakers. Maybe their immediate neighborhood might be predominantly Spanish-speaking, but at some point, they're either going to have to learn English, or have their kids learn English so they can translate for them. It definitely helps if the school system has their classes in English, but even if it doesn't, at some point, the family needs to have somebody who speaks some English.
Somebody (it might've been you. I'm not sure) posted this this link, which illustrates that perfectly.
In any case, I'd like to throw it out there that people in Latin America are learning other languages. For instance, in addition to knowing English, my mom also knows some German, and basically all my cousins learned/are learning at least some English in elementary school. I joke around with some of them that if nothing else, they'll be able to understand the songs on the radio, because a lot of them (probably a good 50% or so) are the same ones that are popular over here. In any case, knowing another language definitely makes them competitive.
The world overall is becoming much more interconnected in terms of economics and so on, so it will serve anybody (regardless of what part of the world they live in) well to become multilingual. The more languages they know, the more competitive they'll be.
Every culture evolves in time. If you look at history whole countries have changed in the passing of time. What do you think the Fouding Fathers think of our country today? I am not implying negatively. I mean as a whole society. I would think it would be like a foreign country because even the English we speak today is not the same anymore.
So change of the language, character, culture, and primary identity is not the same from the time our nation was started. It is not necesarily bad either. I venture to guess that it is difficult for you to see change from what you are used to and like. In other words what you wrote is "I do not like change". Humans resist any type of change. That is understandable. I was born in 1953. Do I wish some things of the past remained? Of course I do. However, I am open to new ideas, ways of living, etc. In my home my wife and I speak Spanish. However, when our children visit we do speak English with them even though they grew up speaking Spanish at home. Now a couple of our daughters married hispanic men that did not learn Spanish at home. That is the reason that we now speak Enlglish with all of them.
Our children got a diferent identity, not like mine that I got for living in Mexico part of my life. When my parents emmigrated to the U.S. they were right when they did not force their culture on us. They realized the U.S. was now our home and we would grow up in a different culture.
To me it is the same with Americans. There are Americans that buck changes that time brings because our country is changing. Why not enjoy those changes? I have done that. I simply keep an open mind.
At home we do live the way we want based on our upbringing but outside we enjoy diversity. It is not difficult. It is a matter of attitude. Take care.
First you guess. Then you tell. You can't have it both ways.
I am not opposed to change and having been born in 1946 have seen a great deal of it, much for the better. That doesn't mean there's been change I don't care for and change on the horizon I might not like if I live long enough to see it.
I applaud your family on being bilingual. I see that as a good thing. Having lived in three other countries I have nothing against reasonable diversity. Pardon me if I don't wish it to take over.
oh quit complaining, no one is forcing anyone to do anything. If you dont want to learn spanish then dont. People that are bilingual will have more options while others that complain and stick to their xenophobic beliefs will not, which is fine by me. Oh btw, hiring more bilingual teachers means more jobs for americans.
You quit being rude. I don't have to learn another language but probably my grandchildren will be forced to learn Spanish. Why should they be forced to learn Spanish to get by in an English speaking country ? I am not xenophobic, I just resent people sneaking into this country, breaking the law and demanding that I do something for them. I'm doing all I can for my grandchildren.
I have several Indian clients, Pakistani clients, Bangdelesh and Hispanic clients. Oh, I forgot my Vietnamese landlords that I rent my office space from. All good people that I respect and like and they came here legally. They don't demand that I provide them with food, education and housing. They usually only have 1-2 children, work hard, learn english. I am invited into their homes and participate in their food selections, religious events and family gatherings.
Nope, I am not xenophobic.
PS-I have traveled in Europe and SE Asia. i have relatives in France, England and an Italian SIL. My french speaking nieces and nephews get a kick out of me trying to speak French but, I try, for laughs.....
It is true that English is the common business language. But the ability to speak other languages gives you a serious competitive advantage. For example, go to the Nestle world HQ in Switzerland. All meetings are held in English. But, at the 'meeting before the meeting' down by the coffee machine or the water cooler, you might need to be speaking French or German to make sure you get the business.
Most advanced countries have active foreign language programs in their schools. In Switzerland they are learning German or French as well as English. In the Netherlands just about everyone speaks at least three languages. In the UK it is French, German or Spanish. The Scandinavians all speak at least three languages. Here in the USA, I won $800k of business because I had a staff person who was bilingual in English/Mandarin. The Chinese firm I was doing business with loved us because we made the effort.
I truly think it's a good thing if people, not necessarily American's only, learn a foreign language. Whatever that may be. If you live in CA, maybe Spanish may be the smarter choice, but maybe Chinese would be better if you know you want to go into business (used to be Japanese). I was a chemistry major in college. I was told I needed to learn one of two languages, NO OTHER LANGUAGE would be accepted. So, there went all my years of French, Japanese, and Italian. Yup, I had to learn either German or Russian. I chose German. Kinda wish I learned Russian as I have Russian friends now.
While in HS, we did the pen pal exchange with people in different countries. I got matched up with a girl in Germany. We were both in 9th grade. She already knew English (and obviously German). We got matched up because we were both learning French. When she graduated, she was fluent in 4 languages (she also learned Latin). FOUR!!! I was happy to escape with one...barely. Since FB came around, we found one another again, guess what, she's still fluent in all 4, but obviously, her Latin is getting real rusty. Me? I know one language fluently.
I don't know if we should be forced to learn one language, mostly because what language would it be? Spanish may be one thing, but in states that don't have a high Mexican population, does it matter? I mean, I'm from SoCal. I can take a 10 min drive and wander into 10 different "countries". However, I do think we all should learn a language besides English. And you should at least try to learn the language of any country you visit. I really hate when I see American's who expect people to speak English, even though they're in a different country. At least try, most people will appreciate that.
....I don't know if we should be forced to learn one language, mostly because what language would it be? Spanish may be one thing, but in states that don't have a high Mexican population, does it matter? I mean, I'm from SoCal. I can take a 10 min drive and wander into 10 different "countries".
However, I do think we all should learn a language besides English. And you should at least try to learn the language of any country you visit. I really hate when I see American's who expect people to speak English, even though they're in a different country. At least try, most people will appreciate that.
It isn't just a matter of Mexicans. In the East there are many Cubans, Puerto Ricans and Dominicans, and with Hispanics settling in more than just a few spots here and there in the U.S., Spanish makes a lot of sense.
I agree with your second point. I learned a great deal about my own native language, English, when studying foreign languages. I've studied Portuguese, Irish and Greek, and they each throw a different light on my own language...and vice versa. Foreign languages are not brain-eating reptiles that slither out of textbooks to feast on the contents of one's skull at night. They are fun to learn, and most of us don't need to end up being able to converse with rocket scientists in the languages we study.
I "learned Greek" largely to be able to read signs. It certainly saved a lotta time not having to stop passersby to find out where I was, and then, of course, they don't speak English! So learning enough Greek to be able to read basic information and have rough grasp of the language was very helpful, especially as I ended up living in an area where most of the local people did not speak English. The first sentence in Greek that I crafted on my own, was the ever-useful: "I have snakes and scorpions in the garden near my house. Do you have poison to kill them?" The effect was galvanizing when I entered the store and sounded off; unfortunately it had the unintended effect of leading people to believe that I might actually be able to have a conversation. Thus, I was a bit of a flash in the pan.
Where I live now, English-speaking foreigners are notorious for not learning the local language, and it is considered quite insulting. On the other hand, to be able to navigate through the stores and the local government in even badly abused Portuguese is really appreciated, and it does pay off in better service too.
You quit being rude. I don't have to learn another language but probably my grandchildren will be forced to learn Spanish. Why should they be forced to learn Spanish to get by in an English speaking country ? I am not xenophobic, I just resent people sneaking into this country, breaking the law and demanding that I do something for them. I'm doing all I can for my grandchildren.
Forced, shmorced...your poor oppressed grandchildren will be able to do what you say Hispanics do, i.e. - don't learn the other language, and get their language deficiency catered to. No problemo!
As for illegals, I have known, worked with and been friends with a countless number of Hispanics over a period of forty years. None of them were illegal. On the other hand, my Irish neighbors were illegals, and they regularly had other Irish illegals sleeping on their couch until they moved on.
... What other country is making its population learn another language, except USA.
...
You really need to check your facts. The vast majority of countries in the world teach other languages in their schools, English being one of the most popular. If you have a doubt, go to Europe and talk in English with a German, a Scandinavian or a Dutch or go to China or even South America. In many Latin American countries you have to show proficiency in a foreign language to graduate high school. Many people the world over are bilingual.
What I don't understand is why many Americans are so close minded and think speaking other language is a bad thing. But when they go abroad as tourists, they want everybody to speak English to them.
Last edited by Merjolie8; 09-09-2013 at 08:01 AM..
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