Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In the context of the 14th Amendment and the federal nationality law on which it was based, we know that the definition is such:
"The provision is, that ‘all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.’ That means ‘subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.’ What do we mean by ‘complete jurisdiction thereof?’ Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means."
Trumbull's role in drafting and introducing the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the 14th Amendment: Committee History
I understand that you've dug yourself so deep into this argument that there's no way for you to ever abandon this interpretation, but the simple truth is that jurisdiction is never incomplete. Jurisdiction is what it is. The ONLY people on US soil who are not subject to the COMPLETE jurisdiction of the United States are diplomats and members of an invading army. In Trumbull's day, American Indians were another exception, hence your reference. But that exception no longer applies. Today, and when President Obama was born, the ONLY exceptions were diplomats and members of an invading army. President Obama was born a United States citizen because he was born in Hawaii. That British law may have also conferred citizenship is irrelevant to the laws of the United States. AMERICAN law determines who is an AMERICAN citizen, without consideration of the laws of other countries. That's why you can be a dual citizen in the United States. And there are many dual citizens.
NO, I admit that other countries have different laws. That's it.
Then why balk at U.S. law in the U.S.? U.S. nationality law requires one born in the U.S. to be subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. in order to acquire U.S. birthright citizenship, a requirement which abides by the superior 14th Amendment.
We know the definition of the 14th Amendment's "subject to the jurisdiction" requirement because it's a matter of public record.
So you admit that sovereign countriesdeny citizenship to those born within their boundaries but are foreign citizens/subjects because they were born to alien parents.
Those sovereign countries recognize other countries' nationality laws. You've just admitted it.
No, dear. Those sovereign countries decide who is and who isn't a citizen based on the sovereign country's laws. Their laws aren't dependent on the laws of other nations.
In your argument, our laws do depend on the laws of other nations. And how do we know this to be a facet of your argument? Because your argument is that the United States has to change its decisions depending on which country a person hails from. If President Obama's father had been from Morocco, then your argument would have to be different. And that's not how it works. A sovereign country has to craft its own laws independent from the laws of other countries. It cannot craft its laws so that citizenship depends on whether a person's father came from Italy or from Japan or from Brazil. The law has to be uniformly applied regardless of where a person's father came from. That's what give laws primacy, that they can be applied uniformly.
SO YOU ADMIT that there is no law that clarifies what a natural-born citizen is.
If it requires a law for a definition, it's statutory, not natural or Constitutional.
I'll quote the State Dept on that: "In any event, the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional purposes." http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
