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Old 09-20-2013, 02:46 PM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,291,156 times
Reputation: 28564

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RIP, the middle class: 1946-2013 - Salon.com

Very sobering.
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:01 PM
 
1,131 posts, read 2,026,497 times
Reputation: 883
Early in the article it defines middle class as "households earning two-thirds to double the national median household income"

Later it claims "new autoworkers now start at $14 an hour – hardly a middle-class wage."

40 hours week @ $14/hour is ~$29k a year. Median household income is ~$51000. So that one job does not put that household into the middle class by the definition above. But is that fair, given that many (most?) middle class households have more than one income?

Median personal income is ~$42 k. $14/hour puts a a starting autoworker right at the entry point to the middle class by the "2/3rds of median" standard. Seems reasonable to me, especially when you consider that income is BEFORE accounting for overtime and the more-generous-than-average (if not nearly as generous as in the old days) benefits.

Last edited by madpaddy; 09-20-2013 at 04:16 PM..
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:15 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,634,918 times
Reputation: 18521
Does this mean you have to live in a big metropolitan area, to be middle class?




Inflation plays hell with the economy.
You have not seen anything, yet.
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,094 posts, read 26,013,345 times
Reputation: 6128
Thanks to liberals.
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:17 PM
 
4,130 posts, read 4,461,778 times
Reputation: 3041
Quote:
Now, with the perspective of 40 years, it’s obvious that the nonstop economic expansion that lasted from the end of World War II to the Arab oil embargo of 1973 was a historical fluke, made possible by the fact that the United States was the only country to emerge from that war with its industrial capacity intact.
.........
That was inevitable, due to the recovery of our World War II enemies, and automation that enables 5,000 workers to build the same number of cars that once required 25,000 hands.
Hits the nail on the head.
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Old 09-20-2013, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,748,172 times
Reputation: 20674
Wealth and poverty are natural states. The free market cannot sustain a middle class. For the most part, Middle Class is manufactured by government. The smaller the wealth gap, the more a government is redistributing wealth.

The likes of the 6th wealthiest family in the world ( Koch) have spent serious big $ to influence public perception and pit the middle class against the poor to the extent that the middle class often defends the plutocracy and blames the poor for being poor. Everyone is screaming about taxes and yet effective federal tax rates on the 99% have not been lower in modern history:

Federal Income Taxes on Middle-Income Families Remain Near Historic Lows — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

The article makes endless references to how it was once possible for a very brief period in history for people to be employed in no-low skilled jobs and make enough money to afford a modest home and feel reasonably secure with their retirement pension. This state was unsustainable in a free market with serious global competition. No one was willing to pay more for Made in the USA to enable American workers to have middle-class lifestyles. And this includes fellow Americans.

The purpose of technology is to eliminate jobs and that it has. Simple things like direct deposits and ATMs have changed banking forever. No need to employ an army of tellers and support staff when technology can do more for less cost and it's more convenient for customers. Business no longer needs armies of data entry people, admin, secretaries, typists, file clerks and so on because it's all been automated. 15% of full time jobs were eliminated between the period of 2000-2010 due to technology and has nothing to do with politics.

On one hand, the tea party advocates seem to prefer to put an end to labor laws, wage laws, EPA, funding public education, safety nets, Social Security and healthcare. They seem to have a perception that they will somehow have more money in their pocket to take care of themselves and the heck with everyone else. Sounds to me like it's social engineering to compete with the third world in terms of wages and standard of living- a giant step back to the 1800's.

On the other hand, is all the good, bad and evil of Socialism.

Seems to me that the true Republicans got lost somewhere along the way.
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Old 09-20-2013, 05:43 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,971,219 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Wealth and poverty are natural states. The free market cannot sustain a middle class. For the most part, Middle Class is manufactured by government. The smaller the wealth gap, the more a government is redistributing wealth.
This is absolutely false. A big lie, promoted by people who strongly desire lots of government involvement, hoping for a chance to siphon their share.
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Old 09-20-2013, 05:48 PM
 
730 posts, read 828,110 times
Reputation: 328
yea saying the government creates the middle class doesn't really make sense. A private employer will pay an employee based on what the market can bear.
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Old 09-20-2013, 05:49 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,971,219 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post



The article makes endless references to how it was once possible for a very brief period in history for people to be employed in no-low skilled jobs and make enough money to afford a modest home and feel reasonably secure with their retirement pension. This state was unsustainable in a free market with serious global competition. No one was willing to pay more for Made in the USA to enable American workers to have middle-class lifestyles. And this includes fellow Americans.
Absolutely and totally a lie.

The reason for the loss of the middle class, is that our labors are stolen from us, in the form of taxes, government imposed costs, and government imposed shortage of things like land, resources, and economic freedom.


Quote:
The purpose of technology is to eliminate jobs and that it has.
Totally and utterly false.

The purpose of technology is to make the INDIVIDUAL MORE PRODUCTIVE.

Quote:
Simple things like direct deposits and ATMs have changed banking forever. No need to employ an army of tellers and support staff when technology can do more for less cost and it's more convenient for customers. Business no longer needs armies of data entry people, admin, secretaries, typists, file clerks and so on because it's all been automated. 15% of full time jobs were eliminated between the period of 2000-2010 due to technology and has nothing to do with politics.
Wow, we used to PAY people big salaries to do nothing? Now we have a machine do it? Thank God for technology!!!!

Quote:
On one hand, the tea party advocates seem to prefer to put an end to labor laws, wage laws, EPA, funding public education, safety nets, Social Security and healthcare. They seem to have a perception that they will somehow have more money in their pocket to take care of themselves and the heck with everyone else. Sounds to me like it's social engineering to compete with the third world in terms of wages and standard of living- a giant step back to the 1800's.

No, not at all. Please. You insult us all with this kind of mindless drivel. It is TRANSPARENTLY false. It fails even a grade-school level analysis as obviously false. Why do you think anyone would fall for it?

On the other hand, is all the good, bad and evil of Socialism.

Seems to me that the true Republicans got lost somewhere along the way.[/quote]

They sure did. Far too many of them have begun to think like you.
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:09 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,119,861 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk View Post
Absolutely and totally a lie.

The reason for the loss of the middle class, is that our labors are stolen from us, in the form of taxes, government imposed costs, and government imposed shortage of things like land, resources, and economic freedom.




Totally and utterly false.

The purpose of technology is to make the INDIVIDUAL MORE PRODUCTIVE.



Wow, we used to PAY people big salaries to do nothing? Now we have a machine do it? Thank God for technology!!!!




No, not at all. Please. You insult us all with this kind of mindless drivel. It is TRANSPARENTLY false. It fails even a grade-school level analysis as obviously false. Why do you think anyone would fall for it?

On the other hand, is all the good, bad and evil of Socialism.

Seems to me that the true Republicans got lost somewhere along the way.

They sure did. Far too many of them have begun to think like you.
....whatever you say.
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