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Old 11-25-2013, 06:58 AM
 
Location: London, U.K.
3,006 posts, read 3,870,831 times
Reputation: 1750

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
In America, under American law, that is incorrect.

Real money is stamped bullion (coin).
Money includes real money + certificates (receipts for real money in the vault).
Notes are NOT money. Never were. Never can be.
REAL MONEY - Money which has real metallic, intrinsic value as distinguished from paper currency, checks and drafts.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1264

MONEY - In usual and ordinary acceptation it means coins and paper currency used as a circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate. Lane v. Railey, 280 Ky. 319, 133 S.W. 2d 74, 79, 81.
Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1005

NOTE - An instrument containing an express and absolute promise of signer (i.e. maker) to pay to a specified person or order, or bearer, a definite sum of money at a specified time. An instrument that is a promise to pay other than a certificate of deposit. U.C.C. 3-104(2)(d)
Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1060
A promise to pay money is not money.
Watch the videos I posted.
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Old 11-25-2013, 07:20 AM
 
59,053 posts, read 27,306,837 times
Reputation: 14285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Cuts sound nice until you specify where you want to cut.

No. I think blind cuts are stupid. Some programs are far more bloated then others. I support cuts, across the board. I think it should be done responsibly instead of blindly.

I think we need a flat tax on all income above 30k, and end corporate taxes completely.
I agree with your "across the board cuts" statement.

EVERY program, including Congress, should be means tested. If it is found worthy to borrow money to pay for it, do so. If NOT cancel it.

NO Agency should get an automatic increase in its budget.

Sen, Tom Coburn publishes a book EVERY year highlighting programs that could be cut or reduced. It would be a good place to start.
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Old 11-25-2013, 07:25 AM
 
30,065 posts, read 18,665,937 times
Reputation: 20884
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaad View Post
Over the next 12 months, the government will spend an average of $30 billion more every month than it takes in.

Does this concern you? It should!!!

If your family earns $50,000 per year, just to pay down the $1 trillion in new debt that the government overspends each year – it would take your family 32 million years to pay for it.

Now, multiply that by 16 – because the government is now $16 trillion in debt –
That’s five hundred and twelve million years. Yes, 512,000,000 years to pay it back!

Penny plan SOLUTION??
If the government cuts one penny out of every dollar of its total spending (excluding interest payments) each year for five years, and then caps overall federal spending at 18 percent of national income from then on, we can:
  • Reduce federal spending by $7.5 trillion over 10 years.
  • Balance the budget by 2019.
Would you be for or against the penny plan?
If against the penny plan, what plan would you support?

Here is the bad news-

Cutting spending, which is necessary, in the absence of marked increases in revenues, is deflationary. Therefore, if we cut bond sales and thus reduce spending, we will experiene a nasty, prolonged deflationary cycle. This has been magnified by the massive accumulated debt we now have. We cannot, at this point, markedly cut spending, as we will reduce the available currency in ciculation. The bond "spending spree" of the last five years has been used to restore the balance sheets of banks and has not produced an increased level of currency in the economy, thus anemic economic activity and no inflation.

What can be done?

1. 15% VAT- that is the only revenue source that has the "muscle" to increase revenues

2. Flat 20% corporate and personal income tax

3. Abolish the Federal Reserve

4. Term limits, such that the representatives are responsive to the people, not bankers

5. Age 72 for medicare and social security eligibility

6. Limit medicaid/welfare to 3 years of a ten year cycle

7. Renegotiate NAFTA and China trade status
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Old 11-25-2013, 07:37 AM
 
1,110 posts, read 672,295 times
Reputation: 804
We need to incentivize our representatives to cut spending. Simply put, appropriate 5% of every spending reduction bill and put it directly into their pockets (if they vote yes/ high and dry if they vote no).

Give them the opportunity become multi-billionaires (via reducing spending) and you'll see how quickly overlapping, obsolete and poorly run bloated programs will vanish into thin air. Win win for everyone.

My long version is here .

Last edited by AKA Bubbleup; 11-25-2013 at 07:40 AM.. Reason: sp
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Old 11-25-2013, 07:41 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,733,597 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaad View Post
Over the next 12 months, the government will spend an average of $30 billion more every month than it takes in.

Does this concern you?
No, it doesn't concern me.

Quote:
If your family earns $50,000 per year, just to pay down the $1 trillion in new debt that the government overspends each year – it would take your family 32 million years to pay for it.
Paying off the United States' debt is not only pointless, but is probably counterproductive. It would likely cause deflation.

Andrew Jackson paid off the national debt in 1835, which accomplished absolutely nothing, except contributing to the Panic of 1837.

Quote:
Now, multiply that by 16 – because the government is now $16 trillion in debt –
That’s five hundred and twelve million years. Yes, 512,000,000 years to pay it back!
Yup, good thing we don't ever need to pay it back. That's what happens when your role is to create currency that serves as the world's most liquid asset.

Quote:
If against the penny plan, what plan would you support?
I would support (A) Greater reserve constraints on banks, (B) Higher interest rates, and (C) A much, much, larger number of private dealers, to include state-run banks (North Dakota style) as well as credit unions.

In fact, I'd go so far as to argue that no for-profit institution should be allowed to serve as a primary dealer to the Fed. It should only be nonprofits and public institutions.

You seem obsessed with public sector debt. Why? If you're concerned about the value of the currency, then are you not also concerned with private sector debt? Because that's what drives inflation in a modern economy. This obsession with the public side of things leads me to believe that y'all don't understand the purpose of debt.

Last edited by le roi; 11-25-2013 at 07:55 AM..
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:03 AM
 
14,292 posts, read 9,678,440 times
Reputation: 4254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swingblade View Post
One of our congress members proposed the penny idea a couple years back and I have not heard any progress since.
The Penny Plan is a good plan, and will balance things out, but the current president and senate won't even get a federal budget passed/signed, so we have a long uphill battle.

The democrats as a party want to spend us into economic collapse, and I think we can see very clearly that the establishment politicians in the Republican Party do not want to cut spending either.
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:26 AM
 
Location: London, U.K.
3,006 posts, read 3,870,831 times
Reputation: 1750
^^ none of this will work while 97% of money is loaned into existence as debt. Unless you abolish fractional reserve banking then nothing can be done, the debt will remain unrepayable.
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Texas
79 posts, read 63,980 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Here is the bad news-

Cutting spending, which is necessary, in the absence of marked increases in revenues, is deflationary. Therefore, if we cut bond sales and thus reduce spending, we will experiene a nasty, prolonged deflationary cycle. This has been magnified by the massive accumulated debt we now have. We cannot, at this point, markedly cut spending, as we will reduce the available currency in ciculation. The bond "spending spree" of the last five years has been used to restore the balance sheets of banks and has not produced an increased level of currency in the economy, thus anemic economic activity and no inflation.

What can be done?

1. 15% VAT- that is the only revenue source that has the "muscle" to increase revenues

2. Flat 20% corporate and personal income tax

3. Abolish the Federal Reserve

4. Term limits, such that the representatives are responsive to the people, not bankers

5. Age 72 for medicare and social security eligibility

6. Limit medicaid/welfare to 3 years of a ten year cycle

7. Renegotiate NAFTA and China trade status
When are you running...You got my vote!
I can't wait to hear why Dems would disagree!
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Texas
79 posts, read 63,980 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by archineer View Post
^^ none of this will work while 97% of money is loaned into existence as debt. Unless you abolish fractional reserve banking then nothing can be done, the debt will remain unrepayable.
That's not true. Grow the economy and the tax revenues will go up!
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,388,397 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Here is the bad news-

Cutting spending, which is necessary, in the absence of marked increases in revenues, is deflationary. Therefore, if we cut bond sales and thus reduce spending, we will experiene a nasty, prolonged deflationary cycle. This has been magnified by the massive accumulated debt we now have. We cannot, at this point, markedly cut spending, as we will reduce the available currency in ciculation. The bond "spending spree" of the last five years has been used to restore the balance sheets of banks and has not produced an increased level of currency in the economy, thus anemic economic activity and no inflation.

What can be done?

1. 15% VAT- that is the only revenue source that has the "muscle" to increase revenues

2. Flat 20% corporate and personal income tax

3. Abolish the Federal Reserve

4. Term limits, such that the representatives are responsive to the people, not bankers

5. Age 72 for medicare and social security eligibility

6. Limit medicaid/welfare to 3 years of a ten year cycle

7. Renegotiate NAFTA and China trade status
The VAT is fair tax by another name. I don't like it, nor want it. It unfairly targets those who must spend the majority of their income just to get by.

I think we should eliminate corporate income tax. I don't know the number needed for the flat tax to work, but I support a flat tax for all income above 30k.

Federal Reserve should have power restricted, but not dismantled.

We have term limits every 2, 4, and 6 years. People who support term limits want to tell other states what to do. I've got an idea, how about our political leaders listen to the majority of voters?

I agree fully with raising the retirement age.

NAFTA and other trade agreements are always tinkered with.

You forgot one important thing, cut defense a butt load
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