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What better use of taxpayer dollars? Let those who earn it,keep it.
History shows every government program goes broke, not to mention the immorality of forcing taxpayers to pay workers not to work.
And by all means, let us not indulge in the immorality of sweeping and largely false generalizations regarding public sector employees based upon ignorance. History has also shown that private sector corporations had to be bailed out by the taxpayers who by-and-large got no bang for their billions of bucks.
And by all means, let us not indulge in the immorality of sweeping and largely false generalizations regarding public sector employees based upon ignorance. History has also shown that private sector corporations had to be bailed out by the taxpayers who by-and-large got no bang for their billions of bucks.
No they didn't but that is indeed a different topic.
I don't disagree. I am not arguing for bailing them out. Very early in this thread I noted that if we bailed them out nobody learns a lesson. Just the same as we are now doing with the countries fiscal policies.
Why should retiree's be the only ones forced to understand this lesson?
Yes I do feel sorry for them.
But everyone gets an annual statement on the state of their pension fund.
These people have a union behind them..someone that was allow to attend the company meetings and such and be aware of a lot more than non union workers.
Anyone reading the expectation of 8% annual return for the next 30 years had to know it was fairy dust.
Anyone working public sector didn't keep current else they would have known that the public sector didn't have to follow the same funding rules as the private pensions.
Loans were taken out against pension money and neither the workers nor union questioned that ?
Now maybe there were some smart ones that took a lump sum and had the company purchase an annuity for them (that is allowed but don't know Detroit's rules).
For the most part Americans are apathetic and don't pay attention to what's going on.
They never do until it directly affects them. And by then it's too late.
Yes I do feel sorry for them.
But everyone gets an annual statement on the state of their pension fund.
These people have a union behind them..someone that was allow to attend the company meetings and such and be aware of a lot more than non union workers.
The banks were warned for years that things were going to crash. Some even lied about their bottom lines and we did nothing about that.
Quote:
Anyone reading the expectation of 8% annual return for the next 30 years had to know it was fairy dust.
Anyone working public sector didn't keep current else they would have known that the public sector didn't have to follow the same funding rules as the private pensions.
Loans were taken out against pension money and neither the workers nor union questioned that ?
Now maybe there were some smart ones that took a lump sum and had the company purchase an annuity for them (that is allowed but don't know Detroit's rules).
For the most part Americans are apathetic and don't pay attention to what's going on.
They never do until it directly affects them. And by then it's too late.
Unless the government decides to make it all right again.......temporarily. Why is it that retiree's shouldn't expect to get treated the same by their government as Wall Street was treated?
I'm not being heartless as I'm a blue collar guy, i feel for those folks. It's the politicians who are to blame for this mess..
How does the politicians being warned with stat's and not taking action have nothing to do with this. They have everything to do with this...I feel for the common worker, I'm one myself...
At this point, it is what it is..Maybe Obama will step up and make things right, IDT so! ...
Why did those workers vote for those politicians over and over?
The dems have ruled Detroit for YEARS and Years because those same workers kept voting them in and promising the moon.
"If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
I live in the south now and I hear others who moved here from the North saying one of the reasons they mover here is the taxes, regulations, etc. and yet, the also say the are dems.
When they find out they CANNOT afford to live where they used to because of the high taxes, etc all of a sudden they aren't too happy with the politicians THEY voted for all those years.
The banks were warned for years that things were going to crash. Some even lied about their bottom lines and we did nothing about that.
Unless the government decides to make it all right again.......temporarily. Why is it that retiree's shouldn't expect to get treated the same by their government as Wall Street was treated?
If you are referring to TARP, at least those companies paid the money back with interest. If the Fed Govt bails out these pensions, that money is gone.
The banks were warned for years that things were going to crash. Some even lied about their bottom lines and we did nothing about that.
Unless the government decides to make it all right again.......temporarily. Why is it that retiree's shouldn't expect to get treated the same by their government as Wall Street was treated?
Because states and cities cannot print money.
If you are still p*ssed about the Fed bailing out Wall Street then go start a thread on it.
Not heartless, but sick of the hypocrisy. Lots of folks in the private sector lose pensions when their companies go under, but no crying for them. Enron comes to mind. In fact, when they went under, the workers were given no sympathy, and told that's what they get for working for that company.
Guess it's only public unions that deserve our "hearts".
I do feel for these folks, many of whom worked hard and are now faced with a future that is terrifying. But how many of them worked at jobs that paid them MUCH more than they should have been making, just because the money was flowing? And given pensions MUCH higher than their private sector counterparts?
San Diego and other Cities are right behind Detroit! In years when no one in private sector got raises the SD unions sweetened the pot of benefits being offered. One of them was the DROP plan. In years there was no money for raises there should not have been anything else being offered either. Especially benefits that were unfunded.
What a coincidence! The court rules that Detroit can file bankruptcy; and, on the same day, Jefferson County emerges from Chapter 9 reorganization.
Congratulations to Professor Kenneth Klee, as lead counsel for the debtor, for this spectacular result! Hopefully, Kevyn Orr will have the same success.
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