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Old 12-12-2013, 10:11 AM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,719,480 times
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You do realize that the middle class complains about you just as much. Some of them make too much where they can't get help but not enough to make a difference. It would be nice if they got to keep more of their money but no, they have to support the dead weights of society.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:24 AM
 
8,391 posts, read 6,294,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaten_Drinker View Post
No. It means that politicians are pandering to the lower classes with subsidies and credits that wealthier people cannot qualify for in return for votes.

I get screwed every year.
No it doesn't mean that.

This is very simple math. If you have a progressive income tax, if you have groups of tax payers and one groups share of the income is going down or staying the same and another group's share of the income is rapidly increasing, how can it be a surprise when the group significantly increasing its total share of the income pays a higher share of the income taxes?

This reality will happen under a progressive income tax system.

So you are just flat out wrong if you think that has no impact on the income taxes paid.

Now certainly when conservatives sell lower income taxes, they sell lower income taxes for all Americans, this results in fewer Americans paying income taxes, but again this is by design by conservative public tax policy.

Unless conservatives will go with the honest message which is we want to cut income taxes for these wealthy Americans because they pay they income taxes and forget the rest of you, they aren't going to do that, instead conservatives will continue to sell income tax cuts for wealthy people as income tax cuts for all Americans.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:24 AM
 
46,943 posts, read 25,964,420 times
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Originally Posted by gretsky99 View Post
So much for the left's "BS" accusation the well off aren't paying their fair share.

The rich do not pay the most taxes, they pay ALL the taxes
Top 40% equals "rich"? That's a really seriously stupid premise to argue from.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:25 AM
 
7,359 posts, read 5,460,918 times
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Originally Posted by gretsky99 View Post
So much for the left's "BS" accusation the well off aren't paying their fair share.

The rich do not pay the most taxes, they pay ALL the taxes
The left's accusations about the rich not paying their fair share are entirely true. Because fair is a subjective term. It can mean anything from 0% to 100%. "Fair" isn't an objective standard. I mean you could even go in the opposite direction of the left. You could say it's only "fair" that the rich pay no taxes because it's their investments and the companies they run that provide jobs.

I saw a Hannity episode where he had college students and he asked what a fair share was. Not a single one of the self identified college Democrats could provide an answer. That's the beauty of saying the rich don't pay their fair share. It's like the liberals saying they value diversity. It doesn't really mean anything. It can be used to support or attack virtually any stance on anything. I watched an Intelligence Squared debate on affirmative action where both sides were arguing to promote the welfare of minorities. One might expect the anti-affirmative action position to be that affirmative action was reverse discrimination and that minorities should do fine without it, but the anti-affirmation action side did exactly the opposite. They argued in favor of increasing diversity and just made an argument that affirmative action damaged diversity more than helped it. It shows how meaningless diversity is in objective terms when you can argue polar opposites of an issue from the same perspective.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,998 posts, read 12,924,934 times
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Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
Let me guess....are you a liberal?
I don't put myself in 1 of 2 boxes to describe my entire worldview. How idiotic.

Besides, I thought it was a conservative viewpoint to pay as little in taxes as legally possible?
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:27 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,032,019 times
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The Rich Do Not Pay The Most Taxes, They Pay "ALL" The Taxes!

Well that seems fair since the rich don't seem to mind using the government to subsidize their low paid and former workers.

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Old 12-12-2013, 10:28 AM
 
8,391 posts, read 6,294,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
The poor should be grateful Americans willingly allow welfare to pay for them, but the poor got greedy. No longer are they satisfied that other people work to pay for their existence. The poor now want the same life style as someone who put in the time to increase their skills to make more money. They also use more services than others.
Welfare is a very small program that was changed to TANF in 1996. TANF is well less than 1% of the federal budget. So reality Welfare/TANF is irrelevant to the income taxes that Americans pay.

More importantly all Americans are subsidized by the federal government. I don't know why poor Americans should be anymore grateful than other Americans.

The rest of your post about what poor people being greedy and what the life style they want is just uniformed, irrelevant, and worthless garbage.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Austin
15,626 posts, read 10,380,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
I don't put myself in 1 of 2 boxes to describe my entire worldview. How idiotic.

Besides, I though it was a conservative viewpoint to pay as littles in taxes as legally possible.
Way to deflect. I think I have my answer.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:31 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,861,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Yes there will always be poor no matter how much the government takes from other people. So essentially the poor have become the children that everyone else must take care of. Greed is demanding something of which you give nothing in return. The poor got greedy. The poor are not satisfied, they want more. They want to live the life of someone who works for their keep.
The poor got greedy????

Please. The AMERICAN people, whose government is made up of the people the American people ELECT, decide what defines poverty and what does not, decide what assistance should be provided. The AMERICAN people decide. Not the poor. It doesn't matter how "greedy" they are, it only matters what American VOTERS decide.

This whole hatred of the poor is irrational. You could be one of the poor, at the drop of a hat. So much of life is random. And poor people wanting things, like food, shelter, clothes, is NORMAL. People want things. People want what other people have. People want to fit in with other people, to look like other people, to be a part of society.

Your problem is not with poor people, or with their "greed", it's with other Americans who vote and who elect representatives that make the decisions about defining poverty, and about welfare and how welfare operates. If you don't like the current system, and clearly you don't, then you need to offer up some solutions that the rest of us can agree with. If you can't get the MAJORITY of Americans to agree with your proposals, then you'll have to get used to the idea that your proposals aren't going to be enacted. But I will tell you, when trying to persuade people to support your ideas, demonizing the poor isn't going to be persuasive.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,998 posts, read 12,924,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
Way to deflect. I think I have my answer.
Haha, I'm really not trying to deflect. I guess I would best decribe myself as fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

I am against paying Federal Income taxes because the waste, wars and constant bureaucratic growth is obvious.
I will only pay what is legally required and will look for any and every exemption. And I will not have the Feds take out any money throughout the course of the year-just bill me at tax season.
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