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States rethinking, retooling juvenile sentencing laws after new research
A generation after America decided to get tough on kids who commit crimes — sometimes locking them up for life — the tide may be turning.
States are rethinking and, in some cases, retooling juvenile sentencing laws. They’re responding to new research on the adolescent brain, and studies that indicate teens sent to adult court end up worse off than those who are not: They get in trouble more often, they do it faster and the offenses are more serious.
Two days ago four juveniles went onto private property to rob two or three men talking, one of the juveniles shot and killed one of the men, turned out the murdered man was a reservist police officer. These kids were all high school kids, three were 17 and one was 16. They are going to charged with capital murder. That can get you put to death in Texas. The 16 year old would only get life..and when they were found all four were armed with loaded guns.
I think that criminal law in general has ventured into counter-productive territory as it has come more and more to represent nothing beyond an animalistic instinct to strike back at a perceived predator. Politicians routinely run on, and get elected for, their tough on crime agendas, and once they get into office, they have nothing more creative to offer than ideas such as sending a message and setting an example for our children. These are buzz-words for I really have no clue at all as to what could be done, so whatever the punishments are now, I'll just vote to make them more severe. What we have ended up with is huge numbers of people in prison, a level of social support that is less than zero for the 600,000 or so people who get out of prison every year, and ranges of individual, community, and social outcomes that are all worse than what they might have been. I think that as a society, we need to start considering that our criminal justice system may be just about as broken as our health care system or our public infrastructure system, and that we need to start talking, thinking, and voting as if we meant to do something about fixing some of those things...
Two days ago four juveniles went onto private property to rob two or three men talking, one of the juveniles shot and killed one of the men, turned out the murdered man was a reservist police officer. These kids were all high school kids, three were 17 and one was 16. They are going to charged with capital murder. That can get you put to death in Texas. The 16 year old would only get life..and when they were found all four were armed with loaded guns.
I don't know anything about this particular case, but what are the chances that these kids come from a community where effectively all of the males between 18 and 35 have already been put in prison? Those missing ones are the backbone of the demographic that ought to be supporting such communities, and in their absence, those remaining often have little but crime of one sort or another to turn to in order to support themselves. And when the candidates are down to the elderly, single mom's, and teenage boys, guess who's going to do the dirty work. I really think we need to step back and take a long look at what we have been doing in these areas...
I'm not buying your liberal, they only kill because they are poor excuse. That might work in New York but not here. Cry that tune to someone foolish enough to believe it.
I think that criminal law in general has ventured into counter-productive territory as it has come more and more to represent nothing beyond an animalistic instinct to strike back at a perceived predator. Politicians routinely run on, and get elected for, their tough on crime agendas, and once they get into office, they have nothing more creative to offer than ideas such as sending a message and setting an example for our children. These are buzz-words for I really have no clue at all as to what could be done, so whatever the punishments are now, I'll just vote to make them more severe. What we have ended up with is huge numbers of people in prison, a level of social support that is less than zero for the 600,000 or so people who get out of prison every year, and ranges of individual, community, and social outcomes that are all worse than what they might have been. I think that as a society, we need to start considering that our criminal justice system may be just about as broken as our health care system or our public infrastructure system, and that we need to start talking, thinking, and voting as if we meant to do something about fixing some of those things...
You are 100% spot on.
While I have very little sympathy for victimizers (murders, rapists, etc), you are dead-on the money when you say our criminal justice system is woefully broken.
We've spent the last 20 years experimenting with the "punishment, not rehabilitation" model and the net result is that we now incarcerate more people per capita THAN ANY OTHER NATION ON EARTH.
The gravest, most odious aspect of this whole nightmare is the present state of offender reentry. In an age where "background checks" are $9.95 and often times are a prerequisite for even the lowest levels of employment, individuals who serve their time and are released find it near impossible to make any kind of lives for themselves, obtain employment, obtain housing, or generally move beyond their past. NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND believes that the punishment for every single offense should be total and utter marginalization for the rest of ones life, yet that's precisely what happens and it's the root cause behind "the revolving door" of the criminal justice system. When our systems of government tell every single offender that there will be no hope for the rest of your life- that you can never reenter society again as a productive citizen not because you don't want to- not because you haven't desperately tried- but because "we say so", it's no shock that the recidivism rate is what it is.
Right now, a 27 year old young man who spent 6 months in prison for, say, selling marijuana when he was 19 will find it near impossible to obtain decent employment, even with a college degree. No matter how hard he tries, no matter how sorry he is for his mistake, no matter how "rehabilitated" he is, his only option is $7.00 at Burger King.
Lets say that kid sent a joint to his girlfriend at college through the mail and was sentenced to probation in Federal court instead of state court. While state offenders- car thieves, rapists, muggers, burglars, etc can eventually obtain expungement in most states, he has to obtain the signature of a sitting president in order to obtain relief- not because his offense was "worse" but because of a 230 year old jurisdictional technicality- and even in the extraordinarily unlikely event that he actually gets a pardon, it is never truly "expunged", only "pardoned". He still has to answer "yes" to the question.
Lets say the kid happens to live on an Indian reservation and sells pot when he's 19. Same deal. Because Indian reservations immediately fall under federal jurisdiction and *many* offenses that would otherwise be a state issue are tried in Federal court for Indian reservations, he cannot obtain expungement or a sealing of his record- ever. His only chance is a 1000-1 shot of getting pardoned by a sitting president, which pretty much never happens unless you're Scooter Libby or Roger Clinton.
I could go on and on and on and on with examples that offend against most everyones concept of "justice", but I wont'.
I agree 100%. This is a huge issue. It isn't a liberal or a conservative issue- it's a simple people issue.
It's a terrible wrong that needs righting, and fast.
saganista and LM1, you guys are both correct. The system is woefully broken - but hey where there's money to be made and responsibility to be shirked...It's funny because the people who benefit from the system aren't very different from the ones in the system.
I strange parallel inasmuch as folks appear to be in awe of former Mayor Guiliani's War on Crime in NYC. So why pick NYC? Is this the City you feel is the quintessential liberal town?
What am I missing about crime & liberal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by texanborn
I'm not buying your liberal, they only kill because they are poor excuse. That might work in New York but not here. Cry that tune to someone foolish enough to believe it.
Hmmm On 1 hand we say juvie's have the right to privacy when it comes to abortions. Parents need not be told. We give them drivers licences. I have heard many say its not the parents right to deny them a tattoo... But when it comes to accountability we say oh but they are just kids..
Just kids who have an appetite to commit crime. I have heard liberals call for lowering the age of consent for sex to 13. If they are adult enough to be allowed to procreate then are they not old enough to be held accountable?
If by the age of 14 or 15 they still don't know that crime is wrong when will they know? If at 17 killing a man in cold blood isn't wrong to them I say they will never understand that it is wrong and should be removed from society.
Sentencing for juveniles is too tough in some ways, I would say not for violent crime like robbery, murder, etc., but for status offenses, drug offenses, non-violent sex offenses, yes, juveniles are treated much more harshly than is appropriate.
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