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Old 03-25-2014, 05:46 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,789,910 times
Reputation: 4174

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I wrote about this, years ago. Looks like it's time for a re-post.

-------------------------

What Are Our "Rights"?

You hear an awful lot about our "rights" these days. And justly so-- our rights, in this country, are our most valuable possession, outside of life itself. And some people say that our basic rights, are even more important than life. When Patrick Henry defiantly told the British government during colonial times, "Give me liberty or give me death!", he was stating that he considered a life without liberty, to be worse than no life at all (death).
So, what are our rights?

The Declaration of Independence mentions a few, and implies that there are others. So does the Constitution-- in fact, it names many, and categorically states that those aren't the only rights people have.

The Declaration says that among our rights, are "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness". It also says that these were given to us "by [our] Creator". Take that as you will, depending on whatever religious outlook you hold. But one of the implications is that, wherever our rights came from, they were NOT granted us by government, or by our fellow men at all. We had them long before government existed. And these various government documents simply say that government cannot take them away or interfere with them.

Here we refer, of course, only to normal law-abiding citizens. The Constitution contains the phrase "except by due course of law" in many places. If you rob someone, assault him, destroy his property, murder him etc., then you can legitimately be deprived of liberty (you go to jail), property (you get fined), or even life in some extreme cases (Death Penalty). Outside of such lawbreaking, your rights are held inviolate.

But today, our "rights" seem to be multiplying without end. This is not necessarily bad-- as we said, rights are extremely valuable. But, are we getting ahead of ourselves, granting to ourselves so many things under the name of "rights"?

"Old Rights"

Some are pretty indisputable, such as the ones mentioned in the Declaration. The ones mentioned in the Constitution, especially in the first ten Amendments (which was even called the "Bill of Rights" by its authors), are similarly vital... though they seem to be undergoing a methodical erosion. Freedom of religion, right to peaceably assemble, freedom of speech and of the press, the right to keep and bear arms, etc. all are very basic, and it is scary to think of trying to exist in a country in which any of these do not exist.

New "rights"

But lately we have heard about other "rights", such as the right to work, the right to decent medical treatment, the right to a decent standard of living. These all sound salutary-- what kind of society would we have, if working for a living were forbidden, decent health care were forbidden, etc.?

But there is a big gap between "forbidden" and "compulsory". The rights found in the country's founding documents, are compulsory, to the extent that we all have them whether we want them or not (who wouldn't want them?), and no one can take them away.

What about, say, the right to decent medical treatment? Those who favor this "right", point out that they don't necessarily mean the rare, exotic, super-expensive treatments; nor "elective" procedures such as cosmetic liposuction or a luxury suite in the hospital. They usually mean that, if you get sick or injured, you have the "right" to have a doctor look at you, make sure the problem isn't unusually dangerous, and administer the routine treatments needed to help you on the way back to good health. An absence of such routine treatment, could occasionally put your life in peril, obviously-- a simple broken bone could lead to infection if untreated, and possibly far more. But there are differences between the "Old Rights", as we've called the ones in the founding documents, and these "New 'Rights'".

Your "right to life" protects something that no man gave you-- you simply had it, from the day you were born. Nobody had to go to extraordinary effort to create it for you, outside of natural processes that move forward on their own without deliberate effort or guidance by humans, government, etc.

Same with the "right to liberty". You were your own man, as it were, the day you were born. Nobody had to go to special effort to create that status for you. In fact, they would have had to go to considerable effort to take those things away, by deliberately coming to you and killing you; or by building a jail and imprisoning you etc. If they leave you alone, you have life and liberty, and can pursue happiness. They have to work at it to deprive you of those things.

The Difference in the "New 'Rights'"

But this isn't the case with what we've called "New 'Rights'". In order for you to get the kind of routine medical treatment its advocates describe, somebody has to stop what he is doing and perform work for you-- the doctor who examines you, the clerk who sets up your appointment, the people who built the office or hospital where you get treatment.

If this routine medical treatment is to be called a "right" on par with our "Old Rights", doesn't that mean that you must be given it when needed? And doesn't it follow, then, that others must be compelled to do the normal things needed to treat you?

Uh-oh.

How does this compulsion upon those others (doctors, clerks etc.) fit in with THEIR rights? They "have" to treat you? What if their schedules are full-- do they have to bump another patient to make room for you? What if they were spending precious quality time with their families-- do they have to abandon their own kids, to fulfill your "right" to treatment that only they can give? Doesn't this fit the description of "involuntary servitude"?

This is an important difference between the rights envisioned by the country's founders, and the new "rights" advocated by more modern pundits. In order to secure your "old rights", people merely had to leave you alone... do nothing to bother you. in fact, they were required to. But these new so-called "rights", required that people go out of their way to actively contribute to you.

And that "requirement", in fact violates THEIR rights-- specifically, their right to liberty. They must be left free to live their lives as THEY chose-- free from compulsion to come and help you out. If they want to help you, that's fine-- often it's the decent and moral thing to do. But they cannot be forced to help you, no matter how much you need the help.

These new "rights", are in fact not rights at all. They are obligations upon others, imposed on them without their agreement or consent. Beware of announcements that you have the "right" to this or that. Ask yourself if this "right", forces someone else to do something for you, that he didn't previously agree to. If it does, it's not a "right" possessed by you. It's an attempt by the announcer, to force others into servitude... an attempt, in fact, to violate the others' rights.
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Old 03-25-2014, 05:46 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,773 posts, read 21,512,862 times
Reputation: 9263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse44 View Post
This is the problem with this discussion.

I agree with the person who was originally quoted. No one has anything compelling to say, so they just pretend like they thought the OP somehow meant literally free healthcare, and not universalized which was blatantly obvious.

And yes, I believe all people should be entitled to some sort of system that doesn't gouge them on individual visits. Jumping the tax a couple percent to levy off the burden is *gasp* really not so bad. I'm not sure why it's so popular to hate poor people and those struggling to manage a modest life when all it means is a relatively small sacrifice on everyone's part.

"Waaaah, now I can't afford that summer cottage sailboat. Get the govnment out of my house waaahh"
Who hates the poor? a free market system will bring down prices.

According to this Gallup poll.
Majority in U.S. Say Healthcare Not Gov't Responsibility
Most Americans want a free market system
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Old 03-25-2014, 05:48 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,789,910 times
Reputation: 4174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse44 View Post
Jumping the tax a couple percent to levy off the burden is *gasp* really not so bad.
Glad you think so. You can pay mine. What address should I send the bill to?
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Old 03-25-2014, 05:49 PM
 
255 posts, read 402,848 times
Reputation: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi000 View Post
Given many countries have either free or inexpensive healthcare, should America adopt a "universal healthcare" concept moving forward?

Here are a few questions to consider:

1. How would it impact the economy and job creation?

2. What kind of structural changes to the healthcare industry are necessary?

3. The effect on illegal immigration?

The article is linked below:

Outrageous Hospital Bill
sigh

it's not free. You just pay through taxes. I lived in the UK. You pay a tax to cover your health care. Why is this so hard to understand?
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Old 03-25-2014, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada
3,379 posts, read 5,539,324 times
Reputation: 4438
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
Who hates the poor? a free market system will bring down prices.

According to this Gallup poll.
Majority in U.S. Say Healthcare Not Gov't Responsibility
Most Americans want a free market system
Certainly doesn't seem like the free market system of the USA brings down the cost of healthcare does it? There's no Wal-Mart hospital.
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Old 03-25-2014, 05:51 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,532,090 times
Reputation: 2052
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
Who hates the poor? a free market system will bring down prices.

According to this Gallup poll.
Majority in U.S. Say Healthcare Not Gov't Responsibility
Most Americans want a free market system
Most Americans have little to no understanding of economics, so a Gallup poll is very weak as evidence that prices will drop.
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Old 03-25-2014, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada
3,379 posts, read 5,539,324 times
Reputation: 4438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Glad you think so. You can pay mine. What address should I send the bill to?
Classic response.
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Old 03-25-2014, 06:03 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,789,910 times
Reputation: 4174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse44 View Post
Classic response.
Still waiting.
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Old 03-25-2014, 06:04 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,773 posts, read 21,512,862 times
Reputation: 9263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse44 View Post
Certainly doesn't seem like the free market system of the USA brings down the cost of healthcare does it? There's no Wal-Mart hospital.
It actually did, before government got involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
Most Americans have little to no understanding of economics, so a Gallup poll is very weak as evidence that prices will drop.
the Gallup poll was to make the point that Americans don't want government to intervene in the health care system.
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Old 03-25-2014, 06:10 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,431 posts, read 19,008,953 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by borregokid View Post
Do Americans deserve to pay for their healthcare because there is no such thing as free. And if they deserve to pay for it they why do conservatives that are at the public trough collecting Medicare, Tricare, VA and Medicaid keep whining? Oh that's right, they want someone else to pay for it... Conservatives love other peoples money.
Well said. When the congress was proposing reducing Tricare pensioners a 1% COL reduction until they hit 62, the republicans wouldn't hear of it and decried the fact that fiscally responsible people were trying to find a small budget reduction. We will never reduce our spending unless someone somewhere is willing to give up something. My local US rep scored political points on it, all the while stroking up his Tea Party principles. Such a hypocrite.
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