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Yeah, guys, the welfare state in America is just a "patchwork" of "temporary" programs that are "very hard" to get into and are "barely adequate." Good thing she put me in my place with "facts."
These human leeches are incredible. They'll fight tooth and nail to keep living off you.
Oh, by the way, you can tell the level of knowledge she has when she brags that Clinton was the one who reformed welfare. She either knows that's false and just wants to lie about it or she doesn't know what actually occurred. The fact that people are so uninformed about politics -- and yet probably think they're very knowledgeable about it -- is why we're in our current situation.
Wow, you seem to have an inexhaustible supply of vitriol, but that's good, Cd is really the place for you to keep on punching up the old battle cry of the meatheads who think they're always right, not just right leaning but ALL the way right, lol. It's real comic relief to hear the trolls who come here from time to time working overtime to help the rest of us "get it RIGHT", right??
Maybe it's time for this "small town" mind to move to another country of his choice, after all America is done and over with in his mind, taxes to the poor, OMG, he's going broke here, "leeches", but never a word about the corporate leeches that have been eating his lunch for most of his life, and that bogeyman Obama, oooh, and Clinton too, "oh Mitt, how I loved thee" lol, get over it already, sheesh talk about tin foil, don't you know they're ALL idiots in DC or are you just another cheerleader for "your" side. Please Blues help us to understand...
Then I got a temporary job working for a property manager while I finished licensing for another job.
These leeches were getting up to $1400 a month in rent assistance. That's my mortgage minus the interest.
These people will never contribute anything to society.
PS: I haven't actually read much in the thread. Just sharing.
Minimum wage for a month (160 hours x $7.25 per hour) is well less than $1400 per month. I assume that you live in an area with a high cost-of-living (i.e. expensive apartments), no? If so, wouldn't rental assistance HAVE to be high in order for it to be meaningful?
Also, I must be missing your point. Is it "they have housing just like I do" and therefore are worthless?
Finally, the notion that this is driven by laziness or choice makes little sense. After all, if you can afford a $1400 mortgage, you likely also have far more overall income than people with directed subsidies. You have a better life and better retirement prospects (by far) due to your income. Why would they not want a better life or a more stable life? The fact is they would and do but the economy really no longer provides opportunities for all.
The easiest way to prove this is to point to how we had sub-4% unemployment as recently as 1999 despite a much higher labor participation rate. In adjusted-terms, we are talking about an unemployment rate well less than half of what it is now, if you simply include the long-term unemployed who have "stopped looking for work" in today's economy. So, was human nature vastly different in 1999? Of course not. Are people lazy now but were hard-working in 1999? No! Were they somehow lazy again in 1933? No. It's the economy and our social structures. Period.
People aren't unemployed and on welfare because they are some underclass of vaguely inferior human beings; they are the unlucky that our cruel laissez-faire system has left by the wayside. There are many reasons: whether it is because they grew up in cruddy environs and have fewer marketable skills in our shifting economy or because the company they worked for went under and at age 57 they have little or no way back into the meat of the economy.
A little empathy goes a long way, but a lot of condescension gets us nowhere as a society.
Minimum wage for a month (160 hours x $7.25 per hour) is well less than $1400 per month. I assume that you live in an area with a high cost-of-living (i.e. expensive apartments), no? If so, wouldn't rental assistance HAVE to be high in order for it to be meaningful?
It's southern Maine. Isn't that expensive. These are for 2-3 bedroom apartments, nothing included. A room rental in an apartment is 400-600.
I wouldn't believe it, if I didn't actually handle the checks from the organizations myself.
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Originally Posted by kwhitegocubs
Also, I must be missing your point. Is it "they have housing just like I do" and therefore are worthless?
The housing by my standards are dumps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhitegocubs
Finally, the notion that this is driven by laziness or choice makes little sense. After all, if you can afford a $1400 mortgage, you likely also have far more overall income than people with directed subsidies. You have a better life and better retirement prospects (by far) due to your income. Why would they not want a better life or a more stable life? The fact is they would and do but the economy really no longer provides opportunities for all.
Because I've met them? I've seen the disasters they leave behind?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhitegocubs
People aren't unemployed and on welfare because they are some underclass of vaguely inferior human beings; they are the unlucky that our cruel laissez-faire system has left by the wayside. There are many reasons: whether it is because they grew up in cruddy environs and have fewer marketable skills in our shifting economy or because the company they worked for went under and at age 57 they have little or no way back into the meat of the economy.
A little empathy goes a long way, but a lot of condescension gets us nowhere as a society.
The way the system works isn't an excuse for a lack of personal responsibility by these people. I'm well aware the system sucks for many. For some though, they don't contribute no matter the system.
It's southern Maine. Isn't that expensive. These are for 2-3 bedroom apartments, nothing included. A room rental in an apartment is 400-600.
So, is your anger directed at the property managers or at those living in them? If the latter, then why?
Quote:
The housing by my standards are dumps.
So why again are you criticizing them. They are living in cruddy conditions and somehow that still makes you angry? Because they aren't living like 17th-century monks in single rooms?
Quote:
Because I've met them? I've seen the disasters they leave behind?
Anecdote is not the singular of data, nor does my experience with renters (generally) make me think this is something peculiar to Section 8 voucher recipients (or other housing benefits).
Quote:
The way the system works isn't an excuse for a lack of personal responsibility by these people. I'm well aware the system sucks for many. For some though, they don't contribute no matter the system.
Yes, it absolutely IS an excuse. That's the point! I don't see how it could be anything BUT a valid excuse. You can't tell people they need to have responsibility for a system they didn't create. If the system mandates that some people must lose or be left behind, it is unconscionable to then blame those who lose, since it means that blaming someone is a precondition mandated by the economy. That's literally just scapegoating.
Finally, the notion that this is driven by laziness or choice makes little sense. After all, if you can afford a $1400 mortgage, you likely also have far more overall income than people with directed subsidies. You have a better life and better retirement prospects (by far) due to your income. Why would they not want a better life or a more stable life? The fact is they would and do but the economy really no longer provides opportunities for all.
This is really incredible logic. "Why, you want a better life and earn money ...why would they not want the same thing?" Uh ...yeah ...but they don't work for their money. "Huh? What does that have to do with anything? What are you getting at?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhitegocubs
People aren't unemployed and on welfare because they are some underclass of vaguely inferior human beings; they are the unlucky that our cruel laissez-faire system has left by the wayside.
Ooo, another liberal who thinks that people's fortunes are determined by "luck" and that we have some "laissez-faire system" -- liberals love to use that term, which they learned in high school, denoting that they either don't know what the words mean or that they are completely oblivious to life in America. Your choice.
It's great, though. No matter what liberal you read, you always realize that they have no comprehension of anything real. They just stumble blindly through life babbling about "corporations!" and "fairness!" and meanwhile they look at America and they literally see "low taxes" and "no regulations" causing rampant destruction. I mean, I honestly can't tell what's going on, is it drug use, head trauma, mental disorders? Your guess is as good as mine.
Smalltownblues, I did my graduate econ and policy work at Penn. I get that you believe all "liberals" are warm-hearted high school grads with a view of the world which has hidden in an underground cave since the '60s, but it isn't true.
And yes, everything is determined by luck of some kind unless you believe there are "uncaused causes". Moreover, we have reams of economic and sociological data that point out (again and again) that negative economic outcomes are heavily and consistently tied to poor childhood circumstances and exposure to poverty, all other variables being controlled. It's not a conspiracy, it's reality.
Wow, so you're basically saying that a Penn degree is worthless, huh? Good tip.
Confirmation bias is quite strong with you. If something doesn't align with your worldview, it is the data or information or degree that must be wrong. Sorry, that's not the way it works.
Now, I'm sure you could accuse me of an "appeal to expertise/authority" fallacy for bringing up my degree, but I only did so when you insinuated I was uninformed or uneducated on the subject.
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