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So what are the results? Smaller government? Lower taxes? Secure border? Anything?
The tea party favorites (Santorum/Perry) weren't nominated. These are the candidates that proposed smaller government, lower taxes and a secure border. In fact, Perry wanted to slash government officials by about 75%(?). They went for Obama 2.0 to play it safe, he lost, and here we are. Oh, and the administration threw in a few IRS audits to keep them in line for midterm elections.
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"everybody getting reported now.."
(set 24 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,558 posts, read 16,548,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrannis
Yes, my point is that they are high. That is, higher than they should be, particularly compared to the direct benefits received. How that compares to the past is largely irrelevant.
Yes they do. They(or you) may not realize it, but they do. It's not just what they see on their paycheck. It's everything that is taxed. Every item they purchase, every gallon of gasoline, every phone bill, every property they own/rent, every park they visit, every vehicle they license or have inspected, etc. Virtually everything they do is taxed in some way. You have to include all of that. When you do, you'll see I'm not exaggerating.
except you are wrong. I bought a new car last year, taxes on it where 700 dollars, the new tag was about 100. gas tax is about 15% and thanks to my new 42.5 miles to the gallon, i only have to fill up once every 2 weeks(at about 40 dollars), thats 6 dollars in taxes every 2 weeks. Property taxes last year where about 900 dollars.
You choose to visit a park, you choose to have a phone, and the taxes on all of those things are small.
median Household income in this nation is 52,000. At best you are talking about 3 or 4 thousand in taxes, no where near enough to add up to 50%
i dont think im going to get an answer to my post so i will answer this way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251
First off, i want to say i dont hate them, i just disagree with them.
Governance: I believe government should do for the people what they can not do for themselves and I believe Government can do good. the Tea Party believes that the government that governs least governs best.
its simply ideological. Consider this. Gov has duplicate departments and there is no accountability. Tea Believes that The federal Gov. can exists with a reduction of 1/3 overall.
Social/Cultural Issues: Whether it be gay marriage, drugs, sex, they seem to be on the opposite side of the spectrum form myself.
I dont see how people can advocate for the Constitution, but at the same im argue that their religion dictates that these things not be legal.
Christianity and Jesus is a guide to lifer and everyone has sinned. This Nation was based on Christian Values like it or not. Christians do approve of people who sinned, but respect other peoples views generally. The Constitution Guarantees our fundamental rights as a citizen and as a country.our rights.
Disrespect for the President and his family : I could understand those in the Tea Party attacking the President. He is Left of Center, you are right of Center. It makes sense not to agree with him, but they have chosen to go further than that and disrespect the Office nd even further at times going after his wife and children.
The biggest miss- understanding that Liberals have is Tea Party and or Conservatives Hate the Obama's personally. It is about Policies or lack of it. We ask foe strong leadership and assertive in his action as president.. Obama would had the respect of the people if he would actual act like a President, not a spoiled teenager.
Taxation: Lower taxes is what people want(not just the Tea Party, but all people), But it isnt what we as a nation need.
Democrat's and Liberals like money, but do understand they have to pay taxes too. They talk the gam, but have reached across the isle to establish a more fair and productive tax system. Lois Lerner is the Poster child, why people do not trust the IRS.
President Clinton rose taxes on the top 3 rates in 1993, and for 8 years, revenue grew and the gap between it and deficits shrunk each year to the point that we actually had budget surpluses( yes, i know a budget surplus and an actual surplus are not the same). in subsequent years, we lowered taxes and revenue only met expectations in 2 of the next 8 years.
Clinton had a surplus because he cut defense spending and closed based around the world. Clintons Lovers play this over and over. As a result HW Bush had to rebuild the Military.
I know this thread is meant for responses from leftists, but please allow me my two cents.
Very simply put, liberals hate the things conservatives (and Americans, for that matter) have stood for ever since this country's founding. It's not so much who they hate; it's what they hate. They don't have any appreciation for our personal freedoms. They don't believe that our country should be exceptional. They don't believe that we should have a free, individual, self-reliant society in which we've been free (well, until recently) from excessive control of government over us. How can anyone not appreciate that? We were also founded on biblical principles and we've had a state in which people have had equal say and equal rights. This nation had been a virtuous country (and it can still be one). We haven't been completely perfect, but we've always been a land of opportunity where folks can come here and be able to achieve their dreams. Freedom is for everyone if people choose to live responsibly (and, sadly, some folks don't). We should be glad that we didn't have to go through all the bad things that other countries have experienced down through the years (excessive famine, constant terror, iron-fisted government control, et al).
Liberals have trouble accepting America as a sovereign nation. They can't handle that. So, now, they desire to waste all their energies trying to change our country into something it wasn't designed for. They desire self-centeredness and to be served by others, not to serve others. Conservatives live their lives based on reason and principle while liberals live their lives based solely on emotion.
Trust me on this, folks. It's a world of difference.
You know nothing about liberals, what we believe, or, for that matter, about American values.
It was liberals who opposed the monarchy, and who declared that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed.
It was liberals who founded a sovereign nation.
It was liberals who demanded a Bill of Rights, and who opposed government based on the tenets of any religion.
It was liberals who abolished slavery.
It was liberals who fought for women's right to vote.
It was liberals who expanded access to higher education.
It was liberals who fought and died for civil rights.
It was liberals who championed space exploration and scientific discovery.
If you loved this country as much as you claim you would be thanking liberals for our American values.
You know nothing about liberals, what we believe, or, for that matter, about American values.
It was liberals who opposed the monarchy, and who declared that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed.
It was liberals who founded a sovereign nation.
It was liberals who demanded a Bill of Rights, and who opposed government based on the tenets of any religion.
It was liberals who abolished slavery.
It was liberals who fought for women's right to vote.
It was liberals who expanded access to higher education.
It was liberals who fought and died for civil rights.
It was liberals who championed space exploration and scientific discovery.
If you loved this country as much as you claim you would be thanking liberals for our American values.
Government schools are not "American values", it is based on the Prussian system used to indoctrinate the citizens of Hitler's Germany. Good thing Liberals fought and died for my civil rights, now I can't be thrown in jail for possessing a plant!... oh wait. The liberals have continued policies such as the drug war throwing people in prison for choosing what they put in their own body.
If Liberals believe that you derive government power from the consent of the governed, why do they freak out if somebody does not want to pay taxes to a system they did not consent to? Throwing people in jail for refusing to fund your organization based on ideological beliefs is not operating under their consent.
You are mostly talking about "classical liberalism' which is a FAR cry from today's liberal/socialist belief structure.
Oh, and Tea party people: Don't single out the Liberals, us Libertarians have a strong dislike for you as well. You want small government... except for when you want to control your neighbors habits like what they can consume or who they can marry.
Given that 85% of the entire US population has a negative opinion of the tea party it is hardly liberals. You guys just said and did too many stupid things and now not only does no one like you but no one takes you seriously. You made your bed in crazytown now go sleep in it.
You know nothing about liberals, what we believe, or, for that matter, about American values.
It was liberals who opposed the monarchy, and who declared that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed.
It was liberals who founded a sovereign nation.
It was liberals who demanded a Bill of Rights, and who opposed government based on the tenets of any religion.
It was liberals who abolished slavery.
It was liberals who fought for women's right to vote.
It was liberals who expanded access to higher education.
It was liberals who fought and died for civil rights.
It was liberals who championed space exploration and scientific discovery.
If you loved this country as much as you claim you would be thanking liberals for our American values.
Classical liberalism ended in 1880. After that the "Progressives" came to power after the growth of the centralized power in the Federal Government and the power grabs of the 16th, 17th, and 18th amendments, The Federal Reserve, locking up journalist and Americans of German heritage during World War 1 and the Eugenics movement(the same one that inspired the Nazis to their ideals) Americans soon saw them as the truly are, tyrants soon the term "Progressive" was a kiss of death in reelection, so they change the title to "Liberal"...Now they are switching title after polluting their current title..Only problem is they cant out run or re write history..
Lets see your failures?
Funny who blocked ever civil rights act until 1964, wait wasn't that the Democratic party?
How did Prohibition work out?
How is the War On Poverty going? We have wasted $7,000,000,000,000,000 and we have more poverty in this nation then ever before?
How is a open border with Mexico going?
How is the Immigration Act of 1965 and the flood of 1.1,000,000 mostly unskilled workers going?
How is blocking School Vouchers and Charter Schools going?
How is the push for infringing on the 2nd Amendment rights of law abiding citizens?
How is project Constellations going? Oh that right The God King Obama canceled it.
You left out some of the following "liberal" actions as well..
You left out how they disarmed armed blacks in the South after the war, leaving the helpless to the Klan.
You left out how the pass moronic laws that limit the right to self defense and the Right To Keep And Bear Arms, meaning while allowing violent criminals to get out of prison early.
You left out how they Welcome in Millions of Illegals some who are violent criminals, preventing with their Neo Con brothers in the GOP from securing the borders and deporting the millions of crimes we have here...All in the wrapped idea of paying their votes with citizenship and welfare check..
You left out how they prevent us for drilling in America and creating millions of Jobs, billions in taxes, and trillions in wealth..
You left out how then took us from space and used funds for the exploration and conquest of space to wage a war on poverty that failed to end poverty, but succeeded in destroying the black family and creating millions of entitlement voters..
You left out how the helped destroy America`s education system, and to help their thug friends in the Teacher Union and NEA keep kids in failed schools, block any real reform.
You left out how they cut retirement benefits to protect funds for illegal immigrates.
You left out how the refuse to protect voters and the value of their vote, that highest of value a value so high it has been paid in the blood and with the life of those who gave their lives.
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The Great Divide!
