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While you...being a Denver Bronco fan and fellow future Omahan (is that still happening?)...happen to be one of my favorite posters, you missed the mark here, big time.
While John Locke was a brilliant philosophical mind, he was a believer in natural law and while natural law has had much influence on the contemporary world, they are by no means a governing theory. Locke was also a bit of a hypocrite as his ultimate freedom beliefs were in pretty direct conflict with his having owned substantial shares of two companies that engaged in slave trade.
That hypocrisy was also present in America's early years...a period often viewed by conservatives and libertarians as freedom's golden age so to speak...as slavery was perfectly legal. Minorities didn't achieve their full civil rights until the middle part of the 20th century.
All of your arguments are based on how you feel things should be. That's all well and fine, but none of it is really applicable to our form of governance.
Because the world was not perfect at the time does not diminish the importance of the idea. Lincoln was a straight up tyrant, but we've all forgiven his various tyrannies because he preserved the union blah blah. FDR was the closest this country ever came to having its very own dictator, and he has the singular distinction of causing a depression during a depression, but he successfully prosecuted WW II, so we forgive him 9 years of total domestic and economic ignorance.
Almost every last one of our Founders owned slaves, because almost all wealthy land owners of the time did. It does tarnish some of the more sterling concepts and philosophies on an ad hominem basis, but it does not negate the ideas of liberty. If you say that a man beating a woman is bad, and then you smack your wife around, does the idea that spousal abuse is bad become invalid simply because one of the proponents of the good idea is a hypocrite to some degree? African slaves fought for the Confederacy, but did that legitimize the Confederacy's cause?
More recent example - the Holocaust/Stalin's gulags/Pol Pot's killing fields. Legendary atrocities all, but what of Canada's oppression of their own aboriginal people, our own sins at Manzanar and Tuskegee, or the entire 1st world looking the other way at the tens of millions of people currently enslaved by one dictator or theocrat after another in the Islamic diaspora?
Do we abandon the good ideas of human rights because our past is not exactly perfect where stuff like that is concerned? After all, it's not like Manifest Destiny revolved around getting the native tribes of the Great Plains permission before totally destroying their way of life and almost wiping out their culture with it.
Liberty is a fine idea. Self-ownership, natural individual rights, and all that "libertopian dogma" are GOOD IDEAS, just practiced or espoused by flawed men on occasion. Does not make the idea less sound, just diminishes respect for the person.
Who in their right mind would eat a cake they forced someone to bake? I'll never forget that movie where the college kids used a pit-bull to provide some extra ingredients to the pastries.
Because if the baker tampered with food that's an even more serious crime?
According to Jefferson, Madison, Adams, Henry, and the philosophers of the Scottish Enlightenment, Roman Empire and classical Athenian Greece they paraphrased in almost all of their writings. But besides them, yeah, it's just made up fluff.
Never heard of the Declaration of Independence, Federalist Papers, Bill of Rights, 13th Amendment, or John Locke's Two treatises on Government? Odd, I thought some of this stuff was still taught in schools.
This country was set up and designed according that "libertopian dogma" you pejoratively speak of. In fact, your freedom to be this obtuse is protected under the rules of that libertopian dogma, luckily for you.
I don't care one damn about your dead wig-wearing slave owners. And whatever freedom I may happen to enjoy has nothing to do with them, I'm not American. And I still don't care if having to obey the law contradicts libertarian dogma. It does, but this is not a libertarian society so it's a worthless argument.
You're just some guy whining about how he shouldn't have to obey the law if it upsets him or makes him sad.
I don't care one damn about your dead wig-wearing slave owners. And whatever freedom I may happen to enjoy has nothing to do with them, I'm not American. And I still don't care if having to obey the law contradicts libertarian dogma. It does, but this is not a libertarian society so it's a worthless argument.
You're just some guy whining about how he shouldn't have to obey the law if it upsets him or makes him sad.
Question - do you reserve this same level of naked hatred for folks like Rosa Parks? MLK? Both were jailed for refusing to obey laws that upset them and made them sad.
Who in their right mind would eat a cake they forced someone to bake? I'll never forget that movie where the college kids used a pit-bull to provide some extra ingredients to the pastries.
Regardless of how you feel about gay people, that wouldn't exactly be the Christian thing to do, now would it Finn? Not to mention that could lead to a serious offense for tampering with someone's food.
Lmao, honestly I'm done with this thread if that's where it's heading.
Yep....sexism is alive and OK.
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