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Old 07-06-2014, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,210,859 times
Reputation: 4590

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
I don't see much political instability in Canada, the United Kingdom, Sweden, etc. I believe their systems are a lot more efficient than ours.
First, I don't know what you mean by "efficient". Second, I think smaller countries tend to be more stable than bigger countries.


I think parliaments are "faster moving" than our system of government. There is less "obstructionism" because the political parties largely just speak with a single voice with a coalition of other like minded parties. Of course, the problem with a "fast moving" government, is that the only thing a government is good at, is passing more laws. Making it easier to pass new laws just means more restrictions/regulations.



Moreover, America couldn't have a parliamentary government anyway. Not only would it require changing the constitution(which is never going to happen). But it would require us to completely change our Congressional election system. And we just have too many states for it to be practical.

I mean, seven American states have only one state representative. And twenty-three states have five or less. It would be difficult to turn that into a well-functioning parliamentary system.



Trust me, this discussion will be ignored by everyone but the "fringes". Because it isn't useful whatsoever to the people in charge.
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:04 AM
Status: "everybody getting reported now.." (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,558 posts, read 16,548,014 times
Reputation: 6041
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Actually one of the great strengths of the United States is that it does *NOT* have a parliamentary system of government. Such governments are famously unstable and when taken to extremes can lead to coups and other nasty outcomes.
Thats a strawman argument if i had ever seen one.

There is not a single governmental system that hasnt been over thrown. Presidents have coups just as parliamentary systems do.
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:05 AM
Status: "everybody getting reported now.." (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,558 posts, read 16,548,014 times
Reputation: 6041
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
At the very least, I'd like to see a much weaker executive branch. A more federalist system with greater power given to the states would certainly be an improvement.
How would it be an improvement ?
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:37 AM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,632 posts, read 14,945,990 times
Reputation: 15935
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
We have a plutocratic oligarchy. A small number of folks in the government and in corporate America control 99% of the wealth. They collude to write and enforce the laws. They rig the so-called free market.

And nearly everyone buys the mainstream D vs R debate when in reality they are the same thing. As long as people keep supporting this system things will never change.
Your comment was elegant in it's simplicity ... and I agree.

I've been trying for years and years to convince folks that there isn't that much difference between the Democrats and the Republicans. The late author and essayist Gore Vidal suggested they were both branches of "The Money Party."

I think we have the partisan loyalties out of "hot button issues" like gun ownership, illegal immigration, abortion, gay rights, the environment, etc.

Grass roots American citizens have little or no political power when it comes to the stupendous finances and influence exerted by international corporations.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,210,859 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
I think we have the partisan loyalties out of "hot button issues" like gun ownership, illegal immigration, abortion, gay rights, the environment, etc.

Grass roots American citizens have little or no political power when it comes to the stupendous finances and influence exerted by international corporations.

We have the partisan loyalties because we live in a democracy. If you are forced to take a side to "win", then you are forced to defend your side. The only alternative is to lose.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:06 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
8,982 posts, read 10,463,986 times
Reputation: 5752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
Your comment was elegant in it's simplicity ... and I agree.

I've been trying for years and years to convince folks that there isn't that much difference between the Democrats and the Republicans. The late author and essayist Gore Vidal suggested they were both branches of "The Money Party."

I think we have the partisan loyalties out of "hot button issues" like gun ownership, illegal immigration, abortion, gay rights, the environment, etc.

Grass roots American citizens have little or no political power when it comes to the stupendous finances and influence exerted by international corporations.
And their lackeys on the Supreme Court, which is the most powerful counter-argument to the belief that there is no difference between Ds and Rs.
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Old 07-06-2014, 12:16 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,674,422 times
Reputation: 7943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander_Crews View Post
Those models of government can, do, and will act without the consent of those they govern, and they use violence to do it.
I think the countries I mentioned have greater respect for their citizens than the US. Here's one organization that ranks countries by human rights:

International Human Rights Rank Indicator

The US isn't in the top 15, but the other countries I mentioned are.
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,210,859 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by pch1013 View Post
And their lackeys on the Supreme Court, which is the most powerful counter-argument to the belief that there is no difference between Ds and Rs.
You need to put this in perspective. If you could somehow imagine a "political line", numbered from 0-100. An anarcho-capitalist might would be around zero, a communist around 100... The Democrats and Republicans largely fall in the middle. The Republican platform might be around a 45, and the democratic platform around a 55. Which means the relative difference between a Republican and an anarcho-capitalist is many times greater than the difference between a Republican and a democrat.


The problem is, the Republican party must pick up 51% of the population to win. So they are trying to be "just to the right of center", likewise with the Democrats being just to the left of center.


The problem if you are to the far left or the far right. Is that, an anarcho-capitalist or a communist is forced to vote for a Democrat or Republican, even though both of those political parties seem about far from you politically(the difference is small).



A better way to express it might be like the old saying "all black or white people look the same". Obviously, black people don't look all the same, and all white people don't look all the same. But the further you are away from one or the other, the more similar they all seem to each other. The closer you are to them, the more you are able to see the differences.


Republicans and Democrats agree on probably 90% of all the issues. It is the 10% that they don't agree with that they fight about all the time.

On the other hand, a communist disagrees with a libertarian on 90% of the issues.

Last edited by Redshadowz; 07-06-2014 at 02:33 PM..
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,210,859 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
I think the countries I mentioned have greater respect for their citizens than the US. Here's one organization that ranks countries by human rights:

International Human Rights Rank Indicator

The US isn't in the top 15, but the other countries I mentioned are.

First, I don't believe in anything called a "legal civil right". I find all issues regarding "Civil Rights", are fundamentally social problems, not civil problems.


Everyone has the right to their opinion, even if their opinion is hateful and wrong. People are free to associate with whoever they want, even if they associate with people I don't like.


And if you declare that "a business" cannot have an opinion, then you are necessarily stating that no one can have an opinion.



The reason is, you are effectively telling people that for them to make money, they are no longer allowed to have an opinion about anyone or anything. Or that if they do have an opinion, they have no right to express it.

And while you might believe that you could just not run a business if things bother you. The problem is, if you want to live in America, you have to have money. Even if you tried to move to the country and live independently, you can't. You still have to pay property taxes at the minimum. Which means you have to have an income, which means you either have to have your own business, or you have to work for someone else.


Any regulation on business is necessarily a regulation on people. If you tell a business that they cannot have an opinion, then you are telling people they cannot have an opinion.



When I see websites like the one you just posted, it just reminds me of what morons people are. And how great people are at "feeling", but how incapable they are of "thinking".
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:05 PM
 
3,147 posts, read 3,503,364 times
Reputation: 1873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
We have the partisan loyalties because we live in a democracy.
False. All objective evidence says that we live in an oligarchy, not a democracy nor a republic.
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