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Isn't that the issue, the question. We know people will have sex regardless of their ability to support a child through life. We were built that way. It is supreme fallacy to think that battle can be fought.
So to be responsible we must provide as many options as possible. . .
Phrase it properly to accurately describe what is being done:
"So to be properly responsible for other peoples' lack of responsibility, we must..."
Now the phrase is intellectually honest in describing your goal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFromChicago
The funny thing is "your dime". I wonder, if you don't provide free birth control, free options for post sex events, etc. . .who will pay
I can tell you. .you will pay. You either pay a little (control/prevention) to help in the beginning or pay a lot at the end (crime/poverty associated with unwanted births).
So my choices are being raped with lubricant, or without. Can I not argue for not being raped at all?
I should not be forced to pay for someone else's poor choices either up front nor on the back end. Requiring me to financially subsidize someone else's lack of judgment does nothing but make lack of judgment guilt free and quite often, profitable. This is how you destroy a society, not how you evolve it.
they don't want us to have abortions, but they don't want us to have access to birth control, either. i think the whole issue is they just don't want women to have sex. lol.
why is this issue so important to certain people? why do you care if cindy who works at walmart has an abortion? it's not your baby she is aborting. it is none of anyone's business except for the woman and her doctor.
they don't want us to have abortions, but they don't want us to have access to birth control, either. i think the whole issue is they just don't want women to have sex. lol.
Who doesn't want you to have access to birth control? Outside of religious organizations, primarily the Roman Catholic Church, name the entity that is blocking access to birth control or even advocating such a thing? And really, the RCC just says birth control is bad and you shouldn't do it, but even they don't block anyone's access to it. Hobby Lobby pays for contraception in their health plan, they just refuse to pay for abortifacients, but refusal to buy something for you is not the same as blocking your access to that thing. My employer refuses to buy me a new car, but that doesn't mean I am banned from owning a new car. My employer refuses to buy my cats their crunchy treats, but I am not banned from buying them.
This meme that someone not giving you something means they are banning it is just so retarded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bored chick
why is this issue so important to certain people? why do you care if cindy who works at walmart has an abortion? it's not your baby she is aborting. it is none of anyone's business except for the woman and her doctor.
The only people who care are either the ones who don't think they should be paying Cindy's birth control/abortion tab, and/or the pro-life folks who think Cindy's unborn might have an inalienable right to life. Beyond that, nobody cares really.
Strawman would require the author to make a false set of statements and attribute them to a position. The priority argument here is that a large group of people who note pro-life are really pro-birth. Even on this board with replies you see pro-birth mantra and withdrawing "pro-life" support. She is not saying "everyone" and she isn't wrong either.
I don't think this nurse would advocate for Abortion. She is advocating for pro-life including the support we know children don't get in the United States. . .and support that a lot of "conservatives" say we remove. A lot . . .based on the party lines of cutting, worrying about fictional welfare queens, etc.
The education is free is the funny part. Like saying that a car is a car if it has 4 wheels . . no difference in the mercedes and the BMW. Some level of education is free, i'll grant you, but its not the level the middle and upper class get. It isn't the same. . .
Why isn't it a straw man argument?
She invoked a straw man to put forth an extreme, easily argued against notion, idea or position, which she knows her opponents don't support. She put forth this straw man because she knew it will be easy for her to knock down or discredit. She created a straw man to misrepresent her opponent's position on the issue of abortion.
The people opposing abortion are not in favor of hungry, poor, sick, uneducated children. They oppose it because they believe abortion kills the developing child in the womb.
Saying yes to sex is indeed saying yes to pregnancy, as that is the only natural act which can result in pregnancy. If contraception is being used, then a concerted effort has been put forth to remove pregnancy from the equation, but it is still remotely possible. But if you have sex, you are open to the very real possibility of pregnancy as one consequence of your action.
a concerted effort sometimes fails, what then. your moral code tells you to take the pregnancy to term. your choice. other women do not want to be pregnant, nor take the pregnancy to term. no one should be forced to carry to term, deliver and raise or give up a child against her own free will. pregnancy can indeed be a consequence however it is a woman's right to control her own reproduction any way she sees fit.
The federal government gave Planned Parenthood $540.6 million in FY 2012 ending June 2013. So yes, in fact, I did pay for abortions, and yes, in fact, I am involved by virtue of government force.
yes you get to have a choice where your tax dollars go get real.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
Phrase it properly to accurately describe what is being done:
"So to be properly responsible for other peoples' lack of responsibility, we must..."
Now the phrase is intellectually honest in describing your goal.
So my choices are being raped with lubricant, or without. Can I not argue for not being raped at all?
I should not be forced to pay for someone else's poor choices either up front nor on the back end. Requiring me to financially subsidize someone else's lack of judgment does nothing but make lack of judgment guilt free and quite often, profitable. This is how you destroy a society, not how you evolve it.
you don't get a choice where the government spends your tax dollars. nor do you get to impose your moral value on the rest of us.
you don't get a choice where the government spends your tax dollars. nor do you get to impose your moral value on the rest of us.
I am not imposing anything on you, it is you and your ilk imposing on me. Where in any of my opinions do I suggest making you do anything for me? No no, it is you demanding that I pay for your lack of judgment, your bad choices, etc that imposes your morality on me.
I do not advocate forcing anything onto anyone for any reason.
I am not imposing anything on you, it is you and your ilk imposing on me. Where in any of my opinions do I suggest making you do anything for me? No no, it is you demanding that I pay for your lack of judgment, your bad choices, etc that imposes your morality on me.
I do not advocate forcing anything onto anyone for any reason.
how are the woman of the US and their rights to control their own reproduction imposing on you? what a laugh! get real.
your beef with paying taxes that everyone pays makes you sound cheap and petty.
A child is the natural, biologically approved consequence of the sexual intercourse action. It's a consequence that nature/G-d/the FSG/Dread Lord Xenu intended.
Gods are storybook characters. I don't see any gods whining about women making their own decisions, just right-wingers.
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You make it sound as if the child part of the procreation equation is a punishment thought up by evil moral authoritarians. It isn't. Actions have natural consequences. For example, if you jump off a really tall building, the effect of hitting the pavement at a really high velocity will not be a punishment, but a natural consequence of gravity. If you spend more than you earn, an increase in debt is a natural mathematical consequence of that behavior, not a punishment. And if you have unprotected sex and a pregnancy results, this is not a punishment, but a natural consequence.
None of this has anything to do with right-wingers wanting women to be forced to carry children they don't want. Not sure why you said it.
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Now, in the case of the unborn, living with or eliminating the consequence of your action is your call, but in neither case is someone else punishing you.
Well, no, it's not. But being forced to carry a child against your will because right-wingers think you should be held accountable or face the consequences (as determined by them), is.
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And in neither case should the consequence of your actions confer obligation on nor harm someone else. Have sex, have lots of it. If you make babies, deal with those babies on your time, your dime, your way. Don't involve me in any way, not ever. Deal?
Sounds good. Now, tell the right-wing anti-choice freedom haters that it doesn't involve them either. They seem to think they should have a say.
She is advocating for pro-life including the support we know children don't get in the United States
What?
Children don't die of starvation in the US. There are all sorts of programs such as WIC that ensure children are fed. Children (or anyone for that matter) can't be turned away from ERs. Children receive a free education.
What exact support do children in the US not receive?
Gods are storybook characters. I don't see any gods whining about women making their own decisions, just right-wingers.
None of this has anything to do with right-wingers wanting women to be forced to carry children they don't want. Not sure why you said it.
Well, no, it's not. But being forced to carry a child against your will because right-wingers think you should be held accountable or face the consequences (as determined by them), is.
Sounds good. Now, tell the right-wing anti-choice freedom haters that it doesn't involve them either. They seem to think they should have a say.
Should we characterize that all left-wingers want no laws preventing elective third trimester abortions?
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get real. 
