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2 men do not reproduce offspring.
2 women do not reproduce offspring.
2 humans and animals do not reproduce .
Male human and female human reproduce human.
the same is true of all life.
The only reason people are perverting/abusing this, is for lust selfish pleasure , nothing more, nothing less.
Being pressure upon to accept this perversion is equally abusive .
And that's a fact.
Yes, it's quite obvious you don't get it. It's funny how so many people think that if God doesn't agree with them, then God must be wrong. I think that's a little backwards.
It's likewise funny how so many people think whatever they believe, God also agrees with.
"You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out he hates all the same people you do." - Anne Lamott
Oddly, my parents were completely unconcerned when I came out. A bit confused maybe (I'm bi, and my mom really struggles with understanding how bisexuality and monogamy work at the same time, but hey), but there were no blow-ups, no tears, no flailing.
I'm actually really happy with being bisexual. I think everyone should be, but I understand that's not how everyone is wired. I've had a lot of great relationships I wouldn't have had if I were only heterosexual. I'd go so far as to say my life's been enriched by my sexuality.
So in an ideal world--at least my ideal world--no, not everyone would be straight. In my ideal world people would be unconcerned with sex/gender and just love who they love (or do who they wanna do).
Well, if you go by some theories on sexuality, most humans are technically bisexual. People just tend to suppress their same-sex attractions or are unaware of them due to societal/family/religious pressure.
Like you, in an ideal world I think it would be better if everyone was bisexual and nobody was demonized for the gender of the consenting adult they happen to fall in love with. It would also solve the painful issue of falling in love with someone and forming a close bond, but knowing they'll never love you, because of your biological sex/gender (I speak from personal experience of how horrifically painful that feeling is).
"god guy?" God is not a "guy." Nor is he the proverbial "man in the sky." God is God.
Further, God is not "narrow minded" nor is he "ignorant." God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.
God exists as the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of God), and this is the clear teaching of scripture, and taught by the Apostles. It is the Holy Spirit that draws us to God, and the Spirit dwells within us.
"... the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
You, however [believers] are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your Spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Christ Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you."
You speak as if you think you know God, yet you have proven in every thread you post on this board that you don't actually live by the teachings of the Son. You condemn, criticize, judge, demonize, have a self-righteous, holier than thou attitude. And this applies to several other of the Conservatives on this forum.
So why on earth should anyone think that anything you say about God, is something that we should listen to? If I can tell by your actions and words that you don't know God, I'm not inclined to listen to you about him.
You forgot to include self-proclaimed male feminist and bi-sexual. Nowhere near the group I was referring to. I meant of course, normal males.
Being bisexual is arguably biologically the most normal position actually. Our closest evolutionary relative is 100% bisexual as an entire species. Probably the only reason humans aren't is due to social/religious pressure.
You speak as if you think you know God, yet you have proven in every thread you post on this board that you don't actually live by the teachings of the Son. You condemn, criticize, judge, demonize, have a self-righteous, holier than thou attitude. And this applies to several other of the Conservatives on this forum.
So why on earth should anyone think that anything you say about God, is something that we should listen to? If I can tell by your actions and words that you don't know God, I'm not inclined to listen to you about him.
Thank you Fiyero. I don't think that Jesus was divine, but it often seems to me that plenty of people who claim to be his followers also don't think he was divine. Nice to hear from one who does.
I hate to sound like a dick, but both of you are completely delusional, or at minimum are in denial. I think you are confusing two different ideas. It is one thing to be of the mind that you will accept your child regardless of what he turns out to be. It is another thing to pretend that one outcome is the same as another.
Look at it like this, the job of parents is to give as many advantages to their children as possible. And that isn't even a new thing, it has always been that way. In fact, the nature of sexual selection(IE coupling) is for the benefit of the children, not for the parents.
If you truly believe that homosexuality and heterosexuality are "equal", you would have to argue that homosexuality and heterosexuality have equal numbers of advantages and disadvantages. Of course, if you could be rational and logical for a minute and look at the situation without bias, you would realize that homosexuality has numerous disadvantages in comparison to heterosexuality(not least their inability to procreate), and no advantages. Thus, if we were able to be "free of bias", we would recognize that homosexuality is necessarily inferior to heterosexuality.
To put it in perspective, take something like "male pattern baldness". Male pattern baldness is effectively caused by the same hormones that cause gender, and which also have an effect on sexuality. It might be true that a woman might claim to be "indifferent" to whether or not her child was bald as an adult(IE she would love them anyway). But what woman doesn't have a preference? Many women and many young people treat bald men like they have some kind of disease.
I am not going to argue that parents don't love their gay children just as much as their straight children. I am definitely not saying that because someone is homosexual that they are somehow inferior to someone who is heterosexual. But if anyone thinks that one is the same as the other, they are in denial.
It is absolutely true that a world without homosexuality would simply be a happier world. It is such an obvious truth that I don't even know why it would need to be debated. I mean, I could rattle off hundreds if not thousands of things that the world would be happier without. In fact, one of those things society would be better without, is the divisive issues that cause us to fight all the time about things that don't really even matter.
The problem is that, those things that make life crappy, aren't things we can just get rid of. If we could, we would have done it a long time ago. Down-syndrome sucks, autism sucks, ALS sucks, asthma sucks, sickle-cell anemia sucks, having crappy parents sucks, being poor sucks, crime sucks, rape sucks, war sucks, abuse of any sort sucks, and I could go on and on practically forever.
My objective is the same as everyone else's, to enable people to be more happy. My problem is that this constant argument about this stupid issue doesn't make anyone happy. I am not opposed to treating all people with respect, and I think we should all recognize our common humanity. What I'm opposed to, is this feeling that liberals basically want me to believe something which just isn't true. Liberals want me to stop thinking logically, because logic might hurt someone's feelings. Liberals like to claim they are scientific, but they seem to ignore science and rationality when it doesn't serve their ideology.
I'm an anarchist, so as a matter of principle, I'm not advocating for a government policy. In no way would I want to prevent a gay person from being gay. One of my best friends is gay. I have no animosity towards gay people. In fact, my entire family is extremely accepting of gay people. My gay friend was so surprised by it that he asked me "Do you guys have like a gay uncle or something?".
I wish my gay friend was straight. But I also have a friend who is deaf, and I wish he could hear. I have an autistic nephew, I wish he wasn't autistic. I have a friend who went bald when he was a teenager, and I saw that it was really hard on him. I don't see anything wrong with having a preference. And I don't see the logic in pretending that we don't have preferences, or that we shouldn't have preferences.
WOW, are you ever delusional. I know many, very many straight people that should never ever be parents, yet are. Equality and normalness are not based on if one can or cannot reproduce and just so you know, we gay people are not sterile, we are more than capable of reproducing children with the opposite sex, but we are not attracted to the opposite sex. Being able to reproduce does not make you superior to us. Get off your high horse. And sorry, but who cares if the bigots would be happier if there were no gay people, but that is not the fact. Gay people have always existed and science has shown that increased fertility in women is tied with homosexuality.
The first bolded bit makes no sense at all. The default postion in that argument is that no one should have beliefs at all? What does that mean?
Your original statement was in response to JobZombie who said... "How do you explain reality, existence (that everything here is even here) time, space, matter, if the universe ends (it doesn't) what's on the other side? That is what you would call God."
Your reply was.. "So, because we exist, a magic flying wizard did it? Prove it."
It seemed as though you were repeating the standard atheist argument against religion, that "You shouldn't believe anything without proof". If that isn't your position, then my response is irrelevant. But since I am 99% sure that that is your position. Then my post was addressing the problem with that statement.
If you dissect the idea that you should never believe anything without proof, then you are saying the "default position" is to not believe in anything. My post was trying to point out that fundamentally, there is no such thing as not believing in anything. Because whatever a person thinks about the world, they believe it in the absence of proof, and further that the proof necessary will never exist.
Thus, while your statement is "true", that if JobZombie wants you to believe the same as he does, that he should provide evidence. It is also true that if you want JobZombie to not think like he does, that you should also provide evidence. Thus, neither your belief or his belief is any more rational or any less exempt from the burden of proof than the other. Since that burden of proof doesn't exist and will never exist, then demanding proof is a complete waste of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz
As far as purpose? Why does there even have to be a purpose at all? Why must there be more? We are just carbon-based life forms with bigger brains, capable of abstarct thinking and inventing deities. Does a golden retriever have a grand purpose? If it suffered in a puppy mill, there's a greater purpose involved? Its life post-mortem will be wonderful and magical because it suffered?
I'm going to agree that there doesn't have to be a purpose. I also agree that it is perfectly reasonable to think that humans simply invented the whole idea of deities to give life purpose.
On the other hand, I don't think it is unreasonable to think that life does have some purpose. In fact, it almost seems absurd for this amazing universe, and for that matter, the wonder of life itself, to be completely pointless.
I suppose the thing that prevents me from believing that life is pointless, is the problem of "consciousness". I'm not talking about intelligence or the ability to think, I'm talking consciousness. This amazing self-awareness that I have, that not only is specific to only me, but which suddenly and without reason came into being at a specific date and time, billions of years after the creation of the universe.
The problem with consciousness is that it is so hard to define what it is. If consciousness is simply a biological function, then you would have to argue that fundamentally all life on some level has some form of consciousness. In fact, even bacteria would necessarily have some form of consciousness.
If you argue that consciousness only relates to intelligence, then as some modern philosophers have asked, will computers someday have a consciousness? Or maybe they already have a consciousness?
If consciousness isn't simply endemic to all biological organisms, or if it isn't simply endemic to anything that can make decisions. Then what all beings have consciousness anyway? How would we even know what organisms have consciousness and which ones didn't? For that matter, how do you even know if the other humans on this Earth have a consciousness? Couldn't they simply be the equivalent of bacteria, who just respond to environmental stimuli, but are never truly "conscious". Basically couldn't I be the equivalent of a biological computer? How would you know?
This problem of consciousness is what prevents me from seeing the world as meaningless random chance. There are just too many amazing, illogical, and unexplainable things about life, especially human life, which makes it seem to me at least, that it makes more sense to believe that life has some greater purpose or meaning beyond what we simply see around us. I have no idea what the meaning of life is, many people before me have pondered that question and have come to varying results.
I personally feel like life exists for one of two purposes, or possibly both at the same time. Either it exists to test people, or it exists basically to entertain people. Imagine life as being almost like the Matrix, where you get to interact with people where you have no idea what will happen in the future. Compare that to a bunch of boring "spirits" living in perfection-land, where nothing eventful ever happens.
In life, you get to love, you get to be sad and also happy, you get to worry and rejoice, you get to wonder what might be because nothing in life is already written. And although life can be hard and painful, isn't it the most amazing gift anyone could ever receive?
I mean, outside of designing a "perfect world" where everything is easy all the time, where nothing bad ever happens, and no one really has to even think for themselves or make decisions. Could you even design a world more amazing than ours for basically testing people and forcing them to make choices in an almost infinite variety of ways?
If you step back for a moment and just look at everything around you, is it not amazing? Isn't it "perfectly imperfect"?
Why is guy on guy action not "normal"? It's quite normal in every other animal species. Why wouldn't it be normal in homo sapiens?
I am ignoring you because you and your like cannot be for real. Fine country we have when the basics of life are doubted.
Last edited by Felix C; 09-03-2014 at 11:50 AM..
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