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It's not murder in the sense that it is not killing a sentient being. A fetus is unconscious for most of its existence and even in the later stages it is not fully conscious either and it the early stages a fetus doesn't even have an active brain.
So why do we not accept abortion at week 30 then? What about an unconscious person who is likely to wake up, is he worth nothing too?
I don't get why pro-choice people feel it is so important to legitimize their choice. Why can't they just admit it is a selfish choice they do because it is practical. If birth was not hurtful, and you could easily give away your child, then there wouldn't have been a debate at all.
The thing is, we are all murderers in some way. We all kill animals, and we don't do much to save lives outside our country. It is not all or nothing. I don't mind people taking abortion, because people die all the time. But don't pretend it is worth nothing. When you want to keep the baby, it is worth everything to you.
There have been a number of anti-abortion threads on this board as of late and they all reiterate the same tired arguments. They get a bit tedious since they are the same simplistic arguments over and over again. I will try to tackle these common arguments with my own take on those arguments.
I see. And you don't think that "anti abortion people really just want to control women's bodies" isn't a tired and simplistic argument?
Let me ask you a question - how would you like it if over and over again people told you what your "real" opinions were? If what you really thought didn't matter at all, they just ignored it and assumed they know more than you do what your own thoughts are? Do you think that might get tired and tedious?
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"Abortion is murder"
It's not murder in the sense that it is not killing a sentient being. A fetus is unconscious for most of its existence and even in the later stages it is not fully conscious either and it the early stages a fetus doesn't even have an active brain.
Irrelevant. You aren't a sentient being when you're sleeping or when you're in a coma but you're still a human being and killing you would still be murder.
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For example the law and most people consider someone who is brain dead to be legally and effectually dead because they are incapable of any brain activity. Hence the phrase "brain dead". Now, if someone who's brain has ceased to function is in effect not a person what about a fetus that has yet to form a brain? There is absolutely no brain activity in the first 8 weeks of pregnancy. That also happens to be when the vast majority of abortions take place.
Invalid comparison. Someone who is brain dead isn't waking up and is damaged in some way through injury or sickness. If you're in a coma and might come out of it then you aren't declared legally dead. A developing fetus has nothing wrong with it.
What you're saying is like saying that a car that is under construction and a car that has been wrecked in a traffic accident are the same thing. It's apples and oranges. One will not and can not ever be driven again. The other one just isn't finished yet.
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Let's also look at the practical aspect. If you believe that abortion is murder in the same sense that a women who is five weeks pregnant goes down to her local women's clinic is morally the same as Susan Smith than you need to take it to its logical conclusion which is that roughly 33% of all women are murderers. That is correct. About 1 in 3 women have had an abortion at some point in their life. Some had it for financial reasons, some were pressured into it by a boyfriend or family member, some did it because they weren't ready for a child, some had it because they were raped, some had it for medical reasons, and did it because the didn't want to have children at all. There are a number of reasons a woman could choose to have an abortion. They range from petty to sensible to sympathetic, but it is ultimately her choice and the fact of the matter is that if you are in a room with several women, it is almost certain that at least one of them had an abortion and that includes if it is a church group or the Republican National Convention.
Then they are murderers. Sorry. Appeals to emotion are weak arguments. You aren't going to get me to decide that an action isn't murder just because a lot of people did it. Like your initial argument about sentience, it is entirely irrelevant.
The one and only question is whether an innocent human life was terminated. If yes, it's murder. If no, it isn't murder. That's it. End of story. Murder is the termination of innnocent human life. Not the termination of innocent human life unless one of three people have done it, then it's okay. Not the termination of innocent human life unless that life wasn't sentient at the time, then it's okay. It isn't okay. Ever.
And it being murder is reason enough to ban it, so I snipped the rest of your stuff because I don't care about any of it one way or the other. Murder is wrong and should be illegal. Period.
And there you have it folks. What is it going to cost me? That is the bottom line and we all know it.
Oh, too, too, too funny coming from a right winger. Conservatives base everything on "how much is it going to cost me?" Can't have universal health care--it might cost me something. Can't provide subsidies to help low income people buy health care--it might cost me something. Can't provide food stamps to hungry people--it might cost me something. Can't subsidize the cost of education and provide more grants for students--it might cost me something. Can't raise minimum wage--it might cost me something. Can't extend unemployment benefits--it might cost me something.
All of these things that these fetuses will need AFTER they are born are simply too costly for right wingers to even consider. But if you choose not to abort your terribly deformed fetus because the rightwingers' God says so, supporting that child's painful life of surgery after surgery to keep them on the planet--THAT they will pay for. Because their God says so.
This is why control of the government needs to be wrested from the far right and kept away from them forevermore.
Oh, too, too, too funny coming from a right winger. Conservatives base everything on "how much is it going to cost me?" Can't have universal health care--it might cost me something. Can't provide subsidies to help low income people buy health care--it might cost me something. Can't provide food stamps to hungry people--it might cost me something. Can't subsidize the cost of education and provide more grants for students--it might cost me something. Can't raise minimum wage--it might cost me something.
All of these things that these fetuses will need AFTER they are born are simply too costly for right wingers to even consider. But if you choose not to abort your terribly deformed fetus because the rightwingers' God says so, supporting that child's painful life of surgery after surgery to keep them on the planet--THAT they will pay for. Because their God says so.
This is why control of the government needs to be wrested from the far right and kept away from them forevermore.
In all fairness, this thread was started by a "Right-winger".
We all have a responsibility to stop someone murdering an innocent child. It is our business.
Agreed, if you understand that a fetus is not a child.
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