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Old 10-10-2014, 02:51 PM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,474,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
Apparently you are as unclear about the role of the military as the Community Organizer in the White House, and ~20% does not come close to what is being spent on unconstitutional federal entitlements. Or is basic civics an anathema to you as well?
I won't need my unconstitutional Food Stamps or unemployment benefits anymore. But I still hope to enjoy my unconstitutional SS and Medicare. And Constitution or not, learn more about Ebola and how to protect myself and country.

 
Old 10-10-2014, 02:58 PM
 
Location: PA
5,562 posts, read 5,683,672 times
Reputation: 1962
Let me know when the CBO can tell us the cost of OBAMACARE when it actually starts paying bills.

Then after the ALL the stimulus money has been found from 2008, 2009 and FED easing we can discuss the economic crash of 2014, 2015 or 2016 which one of those years the bubble comes crashing down.

Its nice the government is trying to live within its means...
I wonder if the deficit is going down because republicans arent letting OBAMA do anything or because since republicans took the house nothing gets done. Which one would democrats like to take credit for or blame on the republicans :-)

But let me know why is it our national debit is still climbing :-)
Hard to get the debit until control spending all that money and also paying the interest on it.

<---- This is whats called look look look here... we arent speading as much... see... see.... see... as we did but we still spend ALOT!
 
Old 10-10-2014, 03:27 PM
 
3,569 posts, read 2,521,634 times
Reputation: 2290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
No, actually the Supreme Court does not disagree with me.

The government conceded that the phrase 'to provide for the general welfare' qualifies the power 'to lay and collect taxes.' The view that the clause grants power to provide for the general welfare, independently of the taxing power, has never been authoritatively accepted.
"If the novel view of the General Welfare Clause now advanced in support of the tax were accepted, that clause would not only enable Congress to supplant the States in the regulation of agriculture and of all other industries as well, but would furnish the means whereby all of the other provisions of the Constitution, … sedulously framed to define and limit the power of the United States and preserve the powers of the States, could be broken down, the independence of the individual States obliterated, and the United States converted into a central government exercising uncontrolled police power throughout the Union superseding all local control over local concerns." --- United States v. Butler, 297 U. S. 1 (1936)
On an historical note, it was this decision, and other similar decisions between 1936 and 1939, that rendered 11 of the 16 New Deal programs unconstitutional.
You may know that the U.S. Supreme Court changed its view on New Deal programs in a pretty dramatic fashion. Congress has the power to:

"To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States." So you are saying that "provide for the common Defence" is a qualification of the power to lay and collect taxes? That makes no sense. The natural reading is that the tax powers can be used 1) to pay debts, 2) to provide for common defense, and 3) to provide for general welfare. That covers pretty much everything. In fact, the Butler Court determined:

"The clause confers a power separate and distinct from those later enumerated [,] is not restricted in meaning by the grant of them, and Congress consequently has a substantive power to tax and to appropriate, limited only by the requirement that it shall be exercised to provide for the general welfare of the United States. … It results that the power of Congress to authorize expenditure of public moneys for public purposes is not limited by the direct grants of legislative power found in the Constitution."

You may also be aware that Butler was the last case to strike down a Congressional Act on Spending Power grounds.

Congress also has the power:

"To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;"

and

"To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

All together, these give Congress expansive authority, including the authority to create a social security program.
 
Old 10-10-2014, 03:31 PM
 
20,726 posts, read 19,367,499 times
Reputation: 8288
Threads like these is like watching cartoons.
 
Old 10-10-2014, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Southern MN
12,042 posts, read 8,425,882 times
Reputation: 44808
Next thing you know the government is going to tell us it's hard to catch Ebola.
 
Old 10-10-2014, 04:05 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,118,301 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
The SCOTUS disagrees with you, so you have a dilemma. We can either go with the SCOTUS and their several rulings on the constitutionality, or we can go with Glitch. I'm going to refer to the SCOTUS.
The SCOTUS has never been asked if social spending was constitutional or not. The issue came up during Obamacare and the Supreme Court questioning if Social Security was Constitutional, the response was, its never been before the court.

The only thing before the court was if the tax was legal, and if it created an entitlement. The Supreme Court said that yes its legal because its NOT an entitlement, its only a tax..

The question never asked was if social spending was constitutional at all.
 
Old 10-10-2014, 04:06 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,118,301 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
SCOTUS has already ruled that those entitlements are constitutional - most notably, the FICA tax and entitlements.
On the contrary they ruled its NOT an entitlement because its a tax, and once taxed that money belongs to the federal government. There is no obligation to repay it at all.. its done so out of the "generosity" of the federal government.
 
Old 10-11-2014, 03:40 AM
 
Location: Texas
37,949 posts, read 17,870,209 times
Reputation: 10371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
What 'printed up' money do you refer to?
The trillions sent to bail out Europe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
And why is the USD strengthening today will all this 'printed up' money?

Where do you think China and Russia are actually 'getting away from it' in any significant amount?

http://www.treasury.gov/ticdata/Publish/mfh.txt

Look at 'Belgium'.
Russia and China took a small step toward undercutting the domination of the U.S. dollar as the international reserve currency on Tuesday when Russia’s second biggest financial institution, VTB, signed a deal with the Bank of China to bypass the dollar and pay each other in domestic currencies.

Russia, China sign deal to bypass U.S. dollar | Al Jazeera America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Why do you think GDP is a worthless figure?

Simon Kuznets showed us how that number can be used to win WW2. So IMO GDP is a very worthwhile number.

http://www.amazon.com/Keep-All-Thoug...?tag=nakorn-20
Because GDP doesn't measure quality. 1 million spent building a house that lasts 50 years is the same as 1 million spent building a bomb that is blown up the next day. Granted there is some usefulness in debt to GDP ratio.
We have a multi billion dollar hole in Texas, (no not Gov. Perry ) the Superconducting Super Collider that caused GDP to rise yet nothing was produced from it.

I dont understand what you mean when you say GDP helped win WW2
 
Old 10-11-2014, 03:48 AM
 
Location: Texas
37,949 posts, read 17,870,209 times
Reputation: 10371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
For many more things than just entitlements. In fact national defense is still a large one.
Military spending is higher than defense spending. That's a big problem. Not saying you are saying different though.
 
Old 10-11-2014, 03:51 AM
 
Location: Texas
37,949 posts, read 17,870,209 times
Reputation: 10371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
I won't need my unconstitutional Food Stamps or unemployment benefits anymore. But I still hope to enjoy my unconstitutional SS and Medicare. And Constitution or not, learn more about Ebola and how to protect myself and country.
You paid into it, you should enjoy it.
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