Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Mircea, credit suisses report on global wealth seems to indicate that its 83.7 trillion.
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Credit Suisse is
not the US government.
Which part of "
US government website" do you not understand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
but of course we all know you're smarter then them right?
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Yes. At least I can find the 17 different US government websites.
You still do not know the difference between "Wealth" and "Income."
You're inability to make that distinction is part of the reason why you cannot find a US government website to support your ridiculous claims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
As for the rest, you go off topic and hurl personal insults. you're not a person having a debate, your a troll wallowing in the mud you throw.
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Pointing out your blatant errors and false statements is not an insult, rather it is a service to forum members.
Show us the GAO report documenting the cost-savings you claim exist.
Show us the CBO report documenting the cost-savings you claim exist.
Show us a report from the Treasury Department or the IRS or the Department of Health & Human Services proving the cost-savings you claim exist.
Show us a report from
any US government agency that rebuts the statements made by the Medicare Trustees in the 2014 Medicare/SMI Trust Funds Report on Page 3.
In fact....show us anything from any reputable group that refutes their claims.
Hell, I'll even take
BigDaddyG and
Yahoo!Answers.
Did you search the
Federal Register for the regulations governing those sections of Obamacare that you cited?
Otherwise....you cannot even prove those so-called cost-saving ideas have been implemented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
PS some personal experiences here, I was involved in telehealth at my last job, it was saving people money, and looks to just increase that over time. And yes it was driven by the ACA.
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Anecdotal Evidence
This is fallacious generalizing on the basis of a some story that provides an inadequate sample.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
You've got some idea that workers have some sort of negotiating power here....and refuse to accept that the only power they have is the setting of minimum wage.
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There's the power of Greyhound...Amtrak.....Delta Airlines, American Airlines etc etc etc.
The power of automobiles.
If they cannot make it on $7.25/hour, then they need to move to one of the 1,539 separate economies in the US where they can make it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Trust me, they are underpaid.
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How can we possibly trust someone who claims that if the Moon were made of barbecued spare-ribs, every household in the US can eat 712,000 spare-ribs per day?
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Which are a truly insignificant part of the money these people spend. All I hear is you repeating "what you've heard".
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Anecdotal Evidence
This is fallacious generalizing on the basis of a some story that provides an inadequate sample.
Prove it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Lets say they give every employee an additional $7/hr, roughly 14K. their profit would drop from 125 billion to 95 billion.
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Um, no, that is a Reality Fail.
Seeing how you cannot differentiate between Wealth and Income, or any form of Inflation, I guess it should come as no surprise that you do not understand the difference between Wage Cost, Benefit Cost, Regulatory Cost and Labor Cost.
Labor Cost is the sum of Wage Cost + Benefit Cost + Regulatory Cost.
Increase the Wage Cost, and the Benefit and Regulatory Costs also simultaneously increase, resulting in an increase the Labor Cost.
That's how Reality works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
People working at a chicken processing plant are not being paid sufficiently, the only reason they work that job is to avoid starvation. Trust me on this.
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Trust you on what?
You refuse to accept that your government identified 800+Skill-sets and 1,539 separate economies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Please feel free to deominstrate minimum wage increases and their related inflation numbers.
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That has been done. Twice.
Remember?
I posted the links to US government sources for you.
Then you claimed on another thread that no one ever did, so I pointed out your false statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Why do states with higher minimum wages have lower unemployment?
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That question cannot be answered truthfully or accurately without additional data.
Required data for an accurate analysis would include sufficient population data to determine the Labor Force Participation Rate and Employment-to-Population Ratio for the State.
It also requires demographic data.
Business and employment data by NAICS code...you know, to see if a State loses 44,000 minimum wage jobs while gaining 250,000 non-minimum wage jobs.
Myself, I would simply cut to the chase and hit demographic data first.
What you want to look at specifically is Race and Age Groups.
If you raise minimum wage,
and Black unemployment increases, then that is a huge Victory for Liberals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Do you have any evidence of these decreased hours you talk of? Heres a clue-the average number of hours worked by Americans is not exactly low. Some relevant....
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Totally irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
We have a minimum wage for a reason.
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Because people like you constantly deceive others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
You have a very tenuous grasp of the concept of cause and effect. we've got dozens of examples of minimum wage rising and no sudden problem.
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Misrepresentation
If the misrepresentation occurs on purpose, then it is an example of lying. If the misrepresentation occurs during a debate in which there is misrepresentation of the opponent’s claim, then it would be the cause of a straw man fallacy.
Once again you employ deception.
No one ever suggested it was "
sudden problem."
It's sad you find it necessary to twist and distort. You're the one with the tenuous grasp of Cause & Effect.
It's Economics; it's not the freaking Amtrak train that runs on a schedule.
It happens when it happens.
Obamacare is part of the reason for the decline in revenues for businesses in the 3rd Quarter, even though the failed roll-out was last October.
Yeah, those Out-of-Pocket expense aren't that affordable for the majority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
But then you pint to 2009 and claim its from the minimum wage increase. Ignoring the whole recession issue that was caused when housing collapsed.
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No, wrong.
The housing collapse did not cause the recession, but it was a symptom of recession.
What caused households to default on their mortgages?
a)
unicorns
b)
USPS lost all of the mortgage checks mailed by home-owners
c)
decline in household income due to job loss(es)
d)
decline in household income due to wage stagnation
e)
both C & D
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Look it up? ok....so lets assume you mean from jan 1 to dec in order to get the largest delta in the values.
$5.15-$7.25.
Now lets take a look...ages 18-24 from 2007-2009. yup they DID go up.....right at the end, not in 2007 or 2008....but in 2009. gosh what happened in 2009 that might have caused a raise in unemployment.......GASP oh yeah! the recession!
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Um, no, it was the minimum wage increase in part.
Whenever you decide to engage in honest debate, you can explain the following:
1] Vlad in Romania getting paid the "Slave Wage" minimum wage of $1.40/hour wants to purchase goods for the house he bought, uh, on his "Slave Wages." Vlad cannot buy from Idiot Fat Union Fred in America, but he can buy goods Made in Romania, if US companies off-shore to Romania (like many have).
Explain how increasing the minimum wage makes US workers globally competitive with Vlad.
Explain how increasing the minimum wage will entice Vlad to buy Made in USA.
2] Long Wang in China and his 1.5 Billion compatriots cannot afford to Buy American from Idiot Fat Union Fred, but he can buy American goods made by Pedro in Mexico.
Explain how increasing minimum wage makes US workers competitive with Pedro.
Explain how increasing minimum wage forces Long Wang to Buy American and save American jobs.
3] Rajiv in India and his 1 Billion compatriots cannot afford to Buy American from Idiot Fat Union Fred Made in USA, but he can buy American goods made in China by Long Wang.
Explain how increasing minimum wage makes US workers competitive globally.
Explain how increasing minimum wage forces Rajiv to buy Made in America and save American jobs.
If you cannot explain, it's because your position is pathetically weak and based on emotion and not on facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Another fun fact from those charts....when the minimum wage went up in 96 and 97....youth unemployment went down.
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And what was happening globally?
You're not suggesting the World is static and unchanging, are you?
'Cause, you know, that would be stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
You have no clue what you are talking about, cherry picked data while ignoring multiple sets of contradictory data, and generally are not impressing me much.
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Cherry picked data?
False Analogy
The problem is that the items in the analogy are too dissimilar. When reasoning by analogy, the fallacy occurs when the analogy is irrelevant or very weak or when there is a more relevant disanalogy.
You're suggesting that the demographics of the US has not changed since 1996?
What were the GDPs of China, India, ROK, and other developing and emerging States in 1996?
Oh, yeah, that....
...not impressed....
Mircea
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