delusional americans (NAFTA, middle east, legal, weapon)

[my54ford]

Originally Posted by ck9

why do americans believe they are the greatest country in the world?. they dont even crack the top 15 in any kind of rating that matters. maybe its the 12000 murders a year. maybe its because the government sends young people to die to enforce the will of the corporations. maybe its the healthcare. you peolpe need to come out of your media induced coma and wake up because your country is in serious trouble. stop believing its your god given right to rule the world. ever think of why people attack you?. canada is very similar and no one attacks us. there is a whole side of the story that your not being told . its not religious fanatisism its that people in t
those countries don want to be occupied and exploited, can you blame them?
remember the british? when you drove them out what did you call yourselves? terrorists? insurgents?. remember one mans terrorist is another mans partriot. change your foreign policy this war on terror can never be won.

Well if we'er so bad maybe all the other countrys should not call us when mother nature dumps on them.... I think the Rohde Island National Gaurd should come up the and take over Canada We could us it to dump all the spent waste from the Nuk plants we're gonna build I have a great joke about the resulting mix of French and British people but I dont want to get booted

[skoro]

Originally Posted by my54ford

Well if we'er so bad maybe all the other countrys should not call us when mother nature dumps on them.... I think the Rohde Island National Gaurd should come up the and take over Canada We could us it to dump all the spent waste from the Nuk plants we're gonna build I have a great joke about the resulting mix of French and British people but I dont want to get booted

"We" aren't so bad. But certain arrogant (and ignorant) Americans express hostility towards much of world, including our longtime traditional allies. This causes friction where none should exist. These folks do our country no good whatsoever.

[briarwood]

[quote=bily4;2383541]

Show me in any of my posts where I discussed slavery or Indians. Don't try to start connecting dots now. Let's focus on today and the global perception of Iraq occupation.

I wasn't talking about you. Hence the words: "Original Poster".


The WMD was always being argued even within the intel community if you check it out. Even Colin Powell called the "proof" he was given to argue in front of the U.N. "BS". Some just wanted to beleive it more than others.
I am thinking the intel community was burned pretty badly by that episode and has learned to be more cautious. Which is why they stood up to the President's warmongering this time towards Iran.
Make sense?

Any other response or reaction to these intel reports, other than trying to change the subject??

How am I trying to change the subject? You brought up the NIE report, and I'm pointing out how the Democrats take it with blind faith as it supports their agenda.

I don't doubt the possiblity that Iran might not be building a nuclear bomb. I never once on this message board posted we should take military action against them. All I'm saying is it's wrong to use critical intelligence to suit your own personal ideologies. If the CIA was wrong on Iraq, it could be equally as wrong on Iran.






Who said the violence has not dropped? So you want to stay until there is a fully functioning government. Any timetable on that? Or do we just wait forever for the Iraqis to play ball with each other? You do realize we can't keep the surge up past this year, I hope...

Life and humanity doesn't operate on a timetable. If you watch "Charlie Wilson's War", you'll note how the US Government recognizes our haste departure from Afghanistan might have contributed to the war on terror being started in the first place. Letting Germany burn after WW1 contributed to the rise of Hiter. Why does Iraq deserve such scorn?


Again, I never mentioned any slavery, Indians, or anything else. You want to go fight the OP about that, you be my guest. You are the one that keeps bringing up "obligations", not me. Nice try at muddying the waters, though.

Hence I said "The Left". Not "Bily4". New Glasses time?


You got that right. Exactly the reaction that would get. So again, we have to wait for the next President before things will change, even though most of America has had it with this occupation.

When Nancy Pelosi gets on television and says "We have a Mandate from the American people", I expect more than a record amount of vacation days. If your already making excuses with a veto-proof congress, why in the world should we trust you with POTUS?




I was referring more to the daily tiger story, Paris Hilton, whenever a cute blonde disappears. This becomes the lead story on major news channels. They are more tabloid than informative. (That is all the news, not just Fox, so relax ...)

That's simply a tip towards general European culture. Europeans seperate news from entertainment much more ridigidly. Obviously you've never read the Daily Mail (if you believe Euros don't like scandal)...





Oh I am sorry, I thought the topic you raised was aid from foreign nations to the US. My bad.
I am sorry you have had bad personal experiences in Europe. I personally have noticed a definite harsher attitude to the US in Europe in my travels since the Bush era. As you say, not entirely fair, but there you have it.


So becuase a select group of people decide to be bigoted azzholes, we should tilt our beliefs and objectives. If I recall, the Civil Rights demonstrators were treated quite harshly as well. I guess they should have thought of others feelings.

[briarwood]

Originally Posted by bily4

Exactly right! So maybe the remaining 25% faithfully marching on need to consider this. Could there be more to the 75% opposition than "America and Bush Hating" ? Could they maybe have a point?

And please just stop with bringing up "lefty wackos"... as if that constitutes anybody that questions the current "strategy" the President has in the Middel East. Old and tired wingnut kneejerk response.

The "right" has more than their share of freaks. Unlike you, I am willing to give most the benefit of the doubt.

Funny, I believe my quote specifically says "War dislike != America dislike"

The original poster has a clear axe to grind with the United States as a whole, irregardless of foriegn policy. There are many level headed people against the war and I respect them. The posters in this thread represent the class of Americans who have a dislike for America itself. To that I say "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

[lilypad]

Oh, skoro, I am so sad for you having to be amongst us backwoods hicks.... Please tell me you are not a real Texan!! How did you get to this West Texas wasteland? We are rednecks (and delusional Americans) for sure, and I know it gives you no end of sleepless nights. Is that my buddy Rush? You know, he is like Little Bow Peep to me, I am so far to the right of him.....

[Blue Grass Fever]

Originally Posted by mhouse2001

With the blatantly arrogant tone of some of these arguments, how can we Americans claim to be so great? Such childish bullying immediately eliminates us from the competition unless divisiveness is a quality of 'great' that escaped the dictionary. Is insulting a neighboring country also a trait?

I never understood why America is in competition with other countries. Are we in competition because of some human need for significance? Or is it because our corporate overlords would get better productivity out of us? Where's the prize for being 'great'? It certainly can't be the world we find ourselves in now.

America is not the greatest country on the planet because we haven't realized any component of greatness as I would define it. Greatness is not defined by the number of weapons, the height of buildings, or the level of luxury. It is not measured by the amount in a bank account, the amount that nature has been tamed, or how many others have bowed down before us.

A truly great country would not have homeless people and polluted rivers. It wouldn't employ violence as entertainment or a means to an end. It would embrace peace rather than glorify death and destruction. It would understand real freedom, not some facsimile. It would be inclusive, not exclusive. It would realize it's in the same boat with everyone else, not ignore the cries of those who find themselves in the icy waters.

America blindly asserts its greatness probably because it refuses to feel shame for and acknowledge its failures. It, like all the other countries, neighborhoods, families, and human beings, can only aspire to greatness by accepting the truth. Lashing out in defiance of the truth and in total arrogance doesn't change reality one bit. We have a ways to go before we can achieve true greatness. When realized, "countries" will have been rendered meaningless.

...very insightful! Unfortunately, there's no money in peace.

[bily4]

Originally Posted by briarwood

Funny, I believe my quote specifically says "War dislike != America dislike"


The quote I was responding to was your -

"75% of people being against the war does not equal 75% supporting the HateAmerica crowd."

Which is undoubtedly true, as much as you and others continue to attempt to portray any comments against the War as America bashing.

The original poster has a clear axe to grind with the United States as a whole, irregardless of foriegn policy. There are many level headed people against the war and I respect them. The posters in this thread represent the class of Americans who have a dislike for America itself. To that I say "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

You have a persistent and unfortunate tendency to generalize and attack specific posters and their points with your "Hating America Left Whacko" blather.
I would suggest that the posters in this thread come from many different backgrounds with many different perspectives about life. The fact they have a common interest in ending the Iraq occupation does not mean they dislike America.

On the contrary, perhaps they feel that bringing our troops back home to their families safely and rebuilding our broken military and global credibility might be a good thing. Go figure.

(Again, if you want to debate Indians and slavery with the OP, I would suggest you respond to the OP specifically instead of myself when you mention them in your arguments. That would eliminate any possible confusion. )

[skoro]

Originally Posted by lilypad

Oh, skoro, I am so sad for you having to be amongst us backwoods hicks....

Hey, lily...

Reality check time. You're the one shouting about how you want your fellow Americans to leave. I've been in Texas for 25 years, spending most of that time in classrooms full of Texas kids. If I didn't enjoy it, I'd be long gone.

Please tell me you are not a real Texan!!

I'd say you're the one trying to sort out who the "real" Texans are. As for me, I don't care who was born in Texas and who moved in last week. We're Americans.

How about you?

How did you get to this West Texas wasteland?

Job transfer back in 1982. I like it here. That's why I stayed. And that's why I changed careers to be a teacher.

We are rednecks for sure, and I know it gives you no end of sleepless nights.

Sleepless nights?

Tell me again, who wants folks with differing viewpoints to go as far away as possible?

Originally Posted by lilypad

I would like to see a mass migration of the ultra left loons and dem libs to Canada's tundraland. Then we, as true Americans, could get busy putting our country aright without the neverending obfuscation these 25% cause. So make haste, get thee a new home for yourselves up there amongst the icebergs and grizzlies. Don't forget those scratchy, itchy long johns! Buh bye now

Is that my buddy Rush? You know, he is like Little Bow Peep to me, I am so far to the right of him.....

In a free country like America you're welcome to be as far on the fringe as you want. But there's no need to see everyone who isn't out on your same fringe as a threat. Relax. Take a deep breath. Liberty's good for all of us.

[DidSomebodySitOnADuck?]

Originally Posted by DanielRead

You know what this dude is right and you know it, at least If you had more common sence you'd know it.

I'll quote the first line from my book of common sense:

"Things that can't go on forever, don't"

Funding wars and consumption on credit, shaving the industrial muscle from the bone and shipping it to China, dumbing down our citizenry to not ask questions - none of this can go on forever.

As I said, it's a fine sentiment to say that America should isolate itself. But isolation is kinda difficult for a country addicted to oil and easy credit. Just like a junkie can't isolate himself from the pushers, the welfare providers and the burglarized homeowners who all support his habit, neither can America simply detach itself from its sugar daddies: Saudi Arabia and China. The only way the junkie can get clean is to live right. And right now, with every American seeing a gas-guzzling V8-powered wheelchair as a birthright, I can't say I'm bullish about our willingness to get clean.

There's no denying that America was once the greatest country on Earth. It may still be. But just saying it and believing it doesn't make it so. It takes action. And back in the day when we were undeniably the Greatest Country on Earth, we were also rationing food, sending every swinging d!ck to the battlefield and using our savings to buy war bonds. And what about now? We keep using those credit cards, we let contractors do our fighting and our President tells us to "go shopping" after being attacked on our own soil.

So I dunno if we're the Greatest, but ask Mohammed Ali. How's he looking these days?

[my54ford]

Originally Posted by skoro

"We" aren't so bad. But certain arrogant (and ignorant) Americans express hostility towards much of world, including our longtime traditional allies. This causes friction where none should exist. These folks do our country no good whatsoever.

If thats a shot at me....Welll I'll try to think of what good I did my country when I cash my retirement check for 20+ fathiful years in the USN. Yep I still remember that boatload of Viet. refugees I spotted that time. Guess I should have realized how crappy we Americans are and let them die.