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I honestly don't think the majority of Americans even knows what Obamacare is. I see it all the time on this forum. People who think that the government website is selling government insurance, for instance. And people who still believe that Obamacare sets up death panels. The amount of misinformation that's been spread about Obamacare is staggering.
Even Mitch McConnell is saying that just certain provisions of Obamacare will be repealed. And that's IF they have the numbers to override a veto by the President.
And at some point the Republicans are going to have to come clean. They can oppose President Obama, and his healthcare legislation all they want. But ultimately, they have to publicly state that the American system of healthcare does NOT work. That it has a stranglehold on our economy, and that if that stranglehold isn't broken, that not only will the financial disaster make the Great Recession look like a cakewalk, that the financial disaster will make the Great Depression look like a cakewalk. Health and insurance simply cannot continue to consume our economic resources at the current rates. And with baby boomers putting increasing pressure on health and insurance to consume at even higher rates those economic resources, the costs of healthcare have to be contained. Something that neither the healthcare industry nor insurance show an interest in doing.
Interesting perspective. I think we all agreed there were certainly broken components to healthcare pre-Obamacare. Frankly, I think people rejected the idea that a minimum healthcare policy must include things they do not need and thus increase the cost. I think people liked the idea that they wouldn't be without insurance due to pre-existing conditions that were more lawyering than anything else. I think people do not like mandates and it's in line with American's independent spirit.
I do think the right path for the GOP is to alter, even significantly in some cases, Obamacare as it stands now. I do not think it's to the Democrats' benefit to try and significantly increase government in their healthcare. I long suspected Americans did not favor that approach and this poll reflects that feeling.
I do think it's an excellent opportunity for a big win for the GOP if they can come in and fix healthcare. That would be something to run on for sure (speaking from a purely political perspective).
I rest my case. If your only answer is "too much government" then we cannot have an intelligent discussion about solutions.
What about healthcare?
Too much government.
Transportation?
Too much government.
Education?
Too much government.
You understand now? You are parroting a GOP talking point when you say that. Nothing more. Ask Americans about real issues and you will see that "too much government" is not something that keeps any sane person awake at night.
Case in point: FOUR RED STATES voted to raise the minimum wage last night.
Actually, last night I stated on the election thread that the minimum wage votes was a perfect solution in my mind. It was at the state level, where it belonged. That's the very basis of the conservative approach. Keep your government closer to you - at the local and state level. You seem to be incorrectly equating the conservative position of saying too much FEDERAL government intrusion is what we fight. I am not anti-government. I am anti large centralized government control over most of our lives. I am pro-government at the lowest levels possible.
You are losing this argument. I am not parroting anything. I am coming from a place of what I believe. Your problem is simply that I do not agree with you.
I do think it's an excellent opportunity for a big win for the GOP if they can come in and fix healthcare. That would be something to run on for sure (speaking from a purely political perspective).
You are smoking something totally awesome if you think the GOP has any desire to "fix" healthcare. It was working just fine for them, thankyouverymuch, BEFORE Obamacare came and ruined the party.
This is the GOP healthcare plan: "I've got my insurance -- what's your friggin problem?"
Billo The Clown's comments after the 2012 election summed it up. "People want things. Obama gives them things." In other words, screw poor people and their non-insured asses.
You are smoking something totally awesome if you think the GOP has any desire to "fix" healthcare. It was working just fine for them, thankyouverymuch, BEFORE Obamacare came and ruined the party.
This is the GOP healthcare plan: "I've got my insurance -- what's your friggin problem?"
Billo The Clown's comments after the 2012 election summed it up. "People want things. Obama gives them things." In other words, screw poor people and their non-insured asses.
Pre ACA there was 36 million uninsured americans, the number currently sits at 41 million.
I though the goal was to insure every american, not increase the numbers of uninsured?
You are smoking something totally awesome if you think the GOP has any desire to "fix" healthcare. It was working just fine for them, thankyouverymuch, BEFORE Obamacare came and ruined the party.
This is the GOP healthcare plan: "I've got my insurance -- what's your friggin problem?"
Billo The Clown's comments after the 2012 election summed it up. "People want things. Obama gives them things." In other words, screw poor people and their non-insured asses.
Then you haven't been paying attention. Our legislators and even McConnell today have all said that they need to fix healthcare and even said there were components they agreed with but it is seriously flawed. They are right. It is flawed.
As to some rabble rousers such as Cruz, I don't support him and his style. The vast majority of Republicans of that style lost in primaries this year. That says something too.
Sorry, I do not put down the repudiation of the Democrats last night and the idea that we want more government to the 'work of the right wing propaganda machine'. The problem is that the Republicans agreed all along that pieces of Obamacare were needed. The primary difference was in the implementation. The reason I thought this particular poll was interesting is because the explanation by the left on the unpopularity of Obamacare was because it didn't go far enough. In fact, that exact phrase is one I've heard often on this board. I thought this poll was answering that question quite succinctly. Now, would I have preferred it to be even more specific? Of course. However, that does not negate the results of the poll.
I would guarantee that well over half of the 47% cannot tell you what is in the ACA or who it applied to. That is the part that is RW propaganda. The belief that it involves government issued insurance is very deeply embedded and hopelessly wrong.
The repudiation of the Democrats last night was much more that the democrats stayed home. They will not in 2016.
Quote:
Too much government in the roles of our lives is not a strawman. It's something we vote on every election and last night, the ideology of big government being best was definitively repudiated. You believe we should have single payer socialist style insurance. Fine. You are not the majority.
And when the Democrats come roaring back in 2016 you will agree that it is all due to the awful performance of the Republicans in 2015 and 2016? Kind of neat. We can prepackage it all now.
And of course at that time you will agree that Big Government is what we really want?
And of course at that time you will agree that Big Government is what we really want?
Big government is what Americans wanted in 2008. But not in 2010. In 2012, yes. But not in 2014. We just can't seem to make up our minds. Or maybe there's more to it than a platitude.
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