Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Carter- had trivial deficits/debt growth.
Reagan- had huge deficits/debt growth.
Clinton- had a balanced budget (no debt growth.)
GW Bush- had huge deficits/debt growth.
Obama- has cut our debt growth rate in 1/2.
uhm....no so
Reagan/bush1 nearly tripled the debt from 1 trillion to 3 trillion
Clinton nearly doubled the debt from 3 trillion to 5.87 trillion
bush nearly doubled the debt from 5.87 trillion to 10.6 trillion
Obama is well on his way of doubling the debt from 10.6 trillion to the current (at the 5 year mark) 17.8 trillion
Reagan/bush1 nearly tripled the debt from 1 trillion to 3 trillion
Clinton nearly doubled the debt from 3 trillion to 5.87 trillion
bush nearly doubled the debt from 5.87 trillion to 10.6 trillion
Obama is well on his way of doubling the debt from 10.6 trillion to the current (at the 5 year mark) 17.8 trillion
why do liberals lie
its the wording you seem to miss I suspect, "debt growth" not "debt". I'd have to go look, but I suspect as defined its accurate. In all honesty given the size of our economic meltdown, a doubling of our debt is not unreasonable. But having it that high going in was unreasonable.
But this discussion of which president did what to the budget is foolish in my opinion. Presidents do not set budgets, they can only suggest budgets-which are pretty much ignored.
its the wording you seem to miss I suspect, "debt growth" not "debt". I'd have to go look, but I suspect as defined its accurate. In all honesty given the size of our economic meltdown, a doubling of our debt is not unreasonable. But having it that high going in was unreasonable.
But this discussion of which president did what to the budget is foolish in my opinion. Presidents do not set budgets, they can only suggest budgets-which are pretty much ignored.
is not DOUBLING the debt...debt growth.....or do we always have to spin it to make the one group lokk better
today we use raw numbers... tomorrow we use rate... the next day we use percentage of gdp....always to make one group look so good and the other group bad
is not DOUBLING the debt...debt growth.....or do we always have to spin it to make the one group lokk better
today we use raw numbers... tomorrow we use rate... the next day we use percentage of gdp....always to make one group look so good and the other group bad
Shrug. it depends on the topic, but often I do agree with you.
I tend to prefer % of gdp, with a relationship to GDP growth. I try and not pick my data upon whom it makes look good, and to avoid cherry picking the data.
But I have certainly seen others mislead via data.
I'm looking for answers with substance. Not "hope".
Here's some substance:
Our inflation is the lowest in the developed world, our economy is growing, not shrinking, our stock market is solid and steadily rising, our unemployment is low and new jobs are being added, and the dollar has regained it's pre-crash value on the international currency market.
We are now the largest oil producer in the world and one of the most socially and economically stable oil producing nations. Our debt to payment ratio is closing, and our treasury bonds are the most secure of any nations' bonds.
Despite drought and climate change, our agriculture is still thriving and producing so much our food commodities are exported all over the world to all the other major agricultural nations that are not doing as well.
More of our citizens are now medically insured than before, in an affordable system, and as a result, we are becoming a healthier nation.
Every one of these items is envied by many other nations, and all of them together are something America alone has right now in such full degree. it appears that after a rocky start, America is now steaming as powerfully into the 21st century as she did in the 20th.
If you really want to see collapse, plan a Mediterranean vacation and visit Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain, France, and England (on the way back home) and see what's going on in those places. You won't be so worried once you are back on these shores again.
Here's some substance:
Our inflation is the lowest in the developed world, our economy is growing, not shrinking, our stock market is solid and steadily rising, our unemployment is low and new jobs are being added, and the dollar has regained it's pre-crash value on the international currency market.
We are now the largest oil producer in the world and one of the most socially and economically stable oil producing nations. Our debt to payment ratio is closing, and our treasury bonds are the most secure of any nations' bonds.
Despite drought and climate change, our agriculture is still thriving and producing so much our food commodities are exported all over the world to all the other major agricultural nations that are not doing as well.
More of our citizens are now medically insured than before, in an affordable system, and as a result, we are becoming a healthier nation.
Every one of these items is envied by many other nations, and all of them together are something America alone has right now in such full degree. it appears that after a rocky start, America is now steaming as powerfully into the 21st century as she did in the 20th.
If you really want to see collapse, plan a Mediterranean vacation and visit Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain, France, and England (on the way back home) and see what's going on in those places. You won't be so worried once you are back on these shores again.
WOW thank you so much !!! I feel better already. I had a few questions but I'll throw them in the trash where they belong. I put the kids to bed and the wife's asleep too. Now give me the dirt. I can take it. lol
And it is the world who issues us credit because they know we are the most stable source for petroleum products. Russia can try all they want to sell their oil in Euro or Yuan, but as long as we use our CIA to make Ukraine a cork in Europe-Russia pipelines and keep China happy in trade, nothing will come of it.
Japan is purely a banking issue. Their currency is traded like stocks. The Yen is faithful because Japan is industrious and keeps out of trouble.
Bingo. Thanks for proving my point.
Japan is monetarily sovereign. Japan can never be insolvent. The only breach of a monetarily sovereign government is political instability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz
I think fractional reserve debt based currency is outdated and the system need changing... we dont really need to collapse we just need inflation that allows wage and gdp growth such that it exceeds debt growth.
....except monetary creation through the central bank doesn't cause real inflation.
(Hint: it is currency inflation is cured by interest rates)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz
I dont buy that we can continue going into debt at these levels with no consequence... a lot of the bears have been driven from the forums and you tend to hear only the people who say it will never happen... which tends to happen during times of stability. We've had downturns before that caught people off guard and will likely have them again when people least expect. Record margin levels in the market..
bubbles are being re-blown...
Well of course you don't "believe" it.. because you don't accept monetary sovereignty. Fortunately for us, your opinion is irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz
How are we supposed to pay for social security and medicare going forward with the aging boomers and low birth rates along with lower wages for the middle class? I dont live every day in fear but Im not naive enough to think nothing bad will ever happen. Chances are when something does happen certain people will be ready and positioned to profit from it ahead of time....
We pay for social security by having the Federal government credit the accounts of social security recipients. It really is that simple. This is done through the computer. We divorced from gold in 1971. All money is issued through credit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsjustmeagain
If the USD looses Reserve Currency Status the US goes poof. No more large trade deficits and downsizing of America on a grand scale.
No it does not. How does China, Australia, Japan, Canada, the UK, and other sovereign governments survive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomman
I think we have 5-6 years max before major default and civil war. I would be surprised if America survives to 2030.
Your opinion is wrong.
The only default that would happen in 5 years is if Ted Cruz or a similarly idiotic official chooses to not pay the bills. It is simply a choice.
Here is the analogy:
You are locked into a supermarket with unlimited shipments of food. Do you starve or eat?
Reagan/bush1 nearly tripled the debt from 1 trillion to 3 trillion
Clinton nearly doubled the debt from 3 trillion to 5.87 trillion
bush nearly doubled the debt from 5.87 trillion to 10.6 trillion
Obama is well on his way of doubling the debt from 10.6 trillion to the current (at the 5 year mark) 17.8 trillion
why do liberals lie
No President raised debt and debt relative to GDP in such a short time as our liberal god FDR. Of course as a result the USA helped win WW2. The debt raised the GDP, the increased GDP produced the materiel of war.
No, I believe the U.S. should cut spending to get rid of the deficit. Things the U.S. can and should cut immediately are:
Foreign Aid: $37 Billion https://www.nationalpriorities.org/b...-us-give-away/
Essential Air Service: $214 million House Votes to Boost Subsidies for Flights to Rural Areas - Bloomberg
Closing all the foreign military bases and bringing the troops home: Estimate $273.1 Billion, total defense department budget is $718 Billion, but a lot of money (Have heard up to $2 Trillion) is unaccounted for. Cutting the wars could close most of the budget deficit, maybe even the whole gap but neither party would ever do that.
"Not surprisingly, when it comes to such contracts and given our recent wars, the top two countries into which taxpayer dollars flowed were Afghanistan and Iraq (around $160 billion). Next comes Kuwait ($37.2 billion), where the military has had a significant presence since the first Gulf War of 1990-1991, followed by Germany ($27.8 billion), South Korea ($18.2 billion), Japan ($15.2 billion), and Britain ($14.7 billion). While some of these costs are for weapons procurement, rather than for bases and troop support, the hundreds of thousands of contracts believed to be omitted from these tallies thanks to government accounting errors make the numbers a reasonable reflection of the everyday moneys flowing to private contractors for the world of bases the United States has maintained since World War II."
Get rid of the Department of Housing and Urban Development: About $50 Billion HUD/U.S.
This is before the U.S. government goes deeper into its books to look for waste, and other items. The U.S. does not need to raise taxes, all the U.S. needs to do is cut spending.
As retired 24 year active duty veteran, I've seen plenty of wasteful spending. I'm all for cutting out waste, but in my experience the waste in military spending isn't the actual missions, equipment or troops, but in civilian contracts. Such as the infamous $500 hammer. Politicians and general officers do deals under the table for votes and money. However, social security and medicare account for MUCH more debt. It is interesting that the only thing leftists want to see cut is national defense. That tells me the left believe debt don't matter but they just hate the military in principle.
I love how Leftists rationalize O's reckless spending. When the financial system collapses again, you'll all be asking where your government cheese went.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
