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"everybody getting reported now.."
(set 23 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
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There are key flaws in the arguments of those who are against this.
1. Firefighters, Cops and EMTs are their for emergencies. No one chooses to get hurt on Thanksgiving or any other holiday, it is an accident. People CHOOSE to shop on Thanks giving.
2. People who chose retail more than 2 years ago did not even think they would have to work on Thanksgiving, just 6 years ago, every store was closed on Thanksgiving except for Wal Mart,Target and k mart who re opened at like 8 that night if I remember correctly. Black Friday, as we know it, has only existed for about 8 years. And even when it started, Stores opened at like 8 AM Friday, it has slowly crept backwards.
Last year was the first year that stores were actually open before 12. You cant say " they should have known" because unless you worked at K Mart or Wal Mart, you didnt work on thanksgiving and you didnt expect to.
That being said, I have no problem working Thanksgiving.
Like I said in the OP, I'm against most unnecessary regulations on private businesses, but can the uber conservatives posting on this page admit that at least some regulation is necessary? Nothing is absolute. In general, I don't support the gov't interfering in the affairs of private businesses, but that isn't absolute either. Do you support government regulations that hold employers to certain safety standards in order to provide a safe work place? You can take this anti-gov't stance to extremes. If we can't admit that some regulation is both appropriate and necessary, we end up back in the days of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, and J.P. Morgan, who, while great entrepreneurs, built their empires on the backs of employees forced to work in often grueling and brutal work conditions.
I can't agree with you on this one, way too bleeding heart for me. There should be a law requiring people to get paid time and a half on major holidays, but that is about it, and even that I think should be left up to the business and the employees to figure out. Businesses shouldn't be prevented from being open if they choose so.
There are key flaws in the arguments of those who are against this.
1. Firefighters, Cops and EMTs are their for emergencies. No one chooses to get hurt on Thanksgiving or any other holiday, it is an accident. People CHOOSE to shop on Thanks giving.
2. People who chose retail more than 2 years ago did not even think they would have to work on Thanksgiving, just 6 years ago, every store was closed on Thanksgiving except for Wal Mart,Target and k mart who re opened at like 8 that night if I remember correctly. Black Friday, as we know it, has only existed for about 8 years. And even when it started, Stores opened at like 8 AM Friday, it has slowly crept backwards.
Last year was the first year that stores were actually open before 12. You cant say " they should have known" because unless you worked at K Mart or Wal Mart, you didnt work on thanksgiving and you didnt expect to.
That being said, I have no problem working Thanksgiving.
This is a flawed statement because there have always been businesses open on Thanksgiving besides emergency workers. Top of my head are hotels, those are businesses that have workers working on Thanksgiving.
Clearly consumers are willing to go shopping on Thanksgiving or there would be no need to be open that day.
This is called the Free Market at work, something conservatives say they support.
I can't agree with you on this one, way too bleeding heart for me. There should be a law requiring people to get paid time and a half on major holidays, but that is about it, and even that I think should be left up to the business and the employees to figure out. Businesses shouldn't be prevented from being open if they choose so.
Nor would they be prevented from being open if they chose to be. They would just open their doors with the knowledge that they'll be paying triple what they normally would be. And, what causes you to draw the line between time and a half and triple time? By saying that they should be paid time and a half, you are conceding the point that workers deserve extra benefits / privileges for working on a holiday, so what rational explanation do you have for drawing the line at time and a half? Seems arbitrary to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78
This is a flawed statement because there have always been businesses open on Thanksgiving besides emergency workers. Top of my head are hotels, those are businesses that have workers working on Thanksgiving.
Clearly consumers are willing to go shopping on Thanksgiving or there would be no need to be open that day.
This is called the Free Market at work, something conservatives say they support.
Speaking of bleeding heart.....I've always known you to be a bleeding heart Liberal. Never a Leftist policy that you don't like. Why the change of heart on this issue? Are you just being disagreeable because it's me?
Nor would they be prevented from being open if they chose to be. They would just open their doors with the knowledge that they'll be paying triple what they normally would be. And, what causes you to draw the line between time and a half and triple time? By saying that they should be paid time and a half, you are conceding the point that workers deserve extra benefits / privileges for working on a holiday, so what rational explanation do you have for drawing the line at time and a half? Seems arbitrary to me.
Speaking of bleeding heart.....I've always known you to be a bleeding heart Liberal. Never a Leftist policy that you don't like. Why the change of heart on this issue? Are you just being disagreeable because it's me?
Paying employees time and a half should be left up to the businesses to decide, there is no need for the government to decide which days employees should be paid more. It seems you missed that point in my last comment.
Well I guess I am not a "bleeding heart" on every issue. As long as the employer is paying at or above minimum wage, I don't really care how much an employer chooses to pay their employees on Thanksgiving. So not really a change of heart when it comes to this topic. I have always had this view when it has come to consumerism and working. If you don't like people working Thanksgiving, then vote with your dollars by no shopping on Thanksgiving. I on the other hand enjoyed going late evening shopping on Thanksgiving than to have to get up extremely early on Friday.
This is a flawed statement because there have always been businesses open on Thanksgiving besides emergency workers. Top of my head are hotels, those are businesses that have workers working on Thanksgiving.
Clearly consumers are willing to go shopping on Thanksgiving or there would be no need to be open that day.
This is called the Free Market at work, something conservatives say they support.
uhm
yes certain SERVICE businesses are open...like hotels...they are open 24/7/52/375
yes SOME customers are WILLING to go to a store for '''some great deal''''
but it certainly isn't a NEED
this is called a needed break for family time...a holiday......something liberals say they support a smaller work week...want to be like france of LESS than 40
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btw..I am not saying the government should intervene...I am saying that retail does NOT NEED to be open on a day like thanksgiving
Last edited by workingclasshero; 12-04-2014 at 05:24 AM..
When it comes to businesses, I'm mostly Conservative in every aspect. I support as little regulation of private business as possible. However, when it comes to this, I have no problem crossing the isle and siding with the Liberals. An Ohio Democrat is proposing a law that would force some retailers to pay their employees triple time if they keep their doors open on thanksgiving....
The holidays are supposed to be about spending time with friends, family and eating good food. However, with the commercialization of the holidays, many retailers opt for profits over people, and the real intent and significance of the holiday is lost.
Every Thanksgiving ( and even Christmas ) I drive to relatives houses, and along the way I feel bad for all the employees in the open stores I pass by, who are forced to work and take time away from their families, lest they lose their jobs. Maybe if some owners have to pay their employees for three days work, they'll find it more profitable to just give everyone the day off. I do think there should be exemptions from this law though, such as healthcare workers, nursing home employees, police, and other essential personnel. How do I reconcile this with my other Conservative, pro-capitalism principles? Well..... I don't, oh well.
yes certain SERVICE businesses are open...like hotels...they are open 24/7/52/375
yes SOME customers are WILLING to go to a store for '''some great deal''''
but it certainly isn't a NEED
this is called a needed break for family time...a holiday......something liberals say they support a smaller work week...want to be like france of LESS than 40
.
btw..I am not saying the government should intervene...I am saying that retail does NOT NEED to be open on a day like thanksgiving
Why concentrate on retailers?
There is no NEED for people to eat Thanksgiving dinner out.
Should this wage demand be inflicted on restaurants?
There is no NEED for people to spend the long holiday weekend at a resort.
Should they be included?
Why concentrate on retailers?
There is no NEED for people to eat Thanksgiving dinner out.
Should this wage demand be inflicted on restaurants?
There is no NEED for people to spend the long holiday weekend at a resort.
Should they be included?
the subject is retail
do you really need to stand in some crowd just to get a deal on an xbox???
is that what we have become.. a society that is only concerned with some sale for a retail product
yes restaurants are open...yes lodging is open....do you expect it to be closed...guess you never travel...
so we should all be happy that we can stay in mom's basement playing the xbox we just go a deal on, to numb our brains with games....way to go
I hope you can take your realization of worker exploitation in this specific case, and expand your vision to recognize more general forms of exploitation.
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