Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A gun death is a death whether murder, suicide or accident. The chart shows an unmistakable correlation between gun ownership and deaths.
The strongest correlation would be between gun ownership and accidents. The more people who own guns, the more accidents will occur.
In terms of murder and suicide, not so much, unless you believe there were very few murders or suicides prior to the invention of the gun. A murderer will choose the tool for the crime based upon factors such as access, ease of use, convenience, effect or significance. If a person is intent on killing themself, lack of a gun will not stop them.
What I'm saying is, for every accident, negligent discharge, etc. that you can find, I can find a story of someone defending their lives. So where does that leave us? Why do the stories of accidents hold more weight in your eyes than those of defense?
Some of these situations may be "accidents," but most of the ones I've mentioned were the result of remarkably reckless, naive or just plain dumb conduct in the use and storage of firearms.
I don't see how that kind of behavior is justified or supported by people who properly defend themselves.
For example, how on earth is carrying a loaded firearm (with a round in the chamber) within arms reach of a toddler justified by the theory of self-defense? This CCW gun owner was clearly not acting in self defense, and it's nonsense to claim that she somehow enhanced her safety by carrying a weapon in this manner. To the contrary, she exposed herself and all around her to grievous and immediate harm.
It's tragic that this happened, and my heart breaks to hear about it. But we've got to work on teaching and reminding people to avoid unsafe behavior -- at all times -- when they are responsible for a firearm.
What I'm saying is, for every accident, negligent discharge, etc. that you can find, I can find a story of someone defending their lives. So where does that leave us? Why do the stories of accidents hold more weight in your eyes than those of defense?
Because most accidents are preventable, because many accidents draw innocents into a total strangers drama or carelessness or indifference... ok? Also, we've been over this: you don't get to 'defend' your life with a firearm unless your attacker is incompetent. Do I need to provide links to some of the many, many shooting victims who were armed at the time of their demise? Do you know how many rape victims are armed at the time of their attacks? How many have their own guns used against them? Not all attackers are incompetent enough to let their victim get the upper hand. Some people already know this, so they peremptorily shoot other people in very questionable situations. As long as they kill their "attackers" and there are no witnesses to the murder, and as long as they live in a Red State with "stand your ground" statutes they are golden. But that's the only way guns work for people. Shoot early and often, and be white when you do it. Oh yah, there is the scenario where the obviously unarmed punk tries to jack someone carrying and gets the surprise of his life. I don't believe that happens that much. I don't see much restraint on the part of gun owners when they have a kill shot. I want no part of an America where "stand your ground" AND the 2nd Amendment are both the Law of the Land. I don't think it will come to that. YMMV.
I never said that every middle class gun accident resulted in a fatality. Some accidents are life ending though even if technically the victim is still alive. There are an awful lot of gun accidents and overall gun mayhem in what is considered the middle class sector of America. You cannot deny this. Added all up it about equals the gun mayhem taking place in the hood. It really does. No link but despite what your fevered imaginaiton would like to think... there are only about 38 million black people and they aren't all gangbangers! Relatively very few black people own guns. By the numbers, there are hundreds of thousands of legally registered handguns at the center of tens of thousands of tragic accidents many resulting in death. Deny it all you want. Makes NO difference to me. I am not going to be one of them. Unless some ****wad shoots me from across the street through his hand. My next of kin will have a field day with his assets in that case.
H
Sure you did....
Quote:
a very solidly middle class American dies by accidentally shooting themselve
There are just as many good stories also...you just don't hear about them because it goes against people such as you, who don't want guns....
You cannot convince me that guns are a major problem...any link you provided does not either. Are there instances that you can say....see see see....look they were killed because of a gun....
I can also show you many instances where the gun has saved lives...I know that pisses you off, but that is the truth.
You want to believe that all people with guns are just stupid and don't care, when that cannot be further from the truth.
The strongest correlation would be between gun ownership and accidents. The more people who own guns, the more accidents will occur.
In terms of murder and suicide, not so much, unless you believe there were very few murders or suicides prior to the invention of the gun. A murderer will choose the tool for the crime based upon factors such as access, ease of use, convenience, effect or significance. If a person is intent on killing themself, lack of a gun will not stop them.
Absolutely wrong:
Gun homicides -- arguments degenerate into fights which become deadly with the addition of a gun.
Suicides -- most attempted suicides fail, except for those made with a gun.
The data are uncontroverted. Lower % of households with guns = lower death rate.
Do I need to provide links to some of the many, many shooting victims who were armed at the time of their demise? Do you know how many rape victims are armed at the time of their attacks? How many have their own guns used against them?
H
Yes...lets see all these links...
And they cannot be the ambush type killings....like the 2 cops that were killed...
They must be one on one, where the person was raped, and they had a gun, or the gun they had was taken from them and used on them...show us these many many victims....
It happens so much you should be able to provide 50 - 100 links....since it happens many many times....
Gun homicides -- arguments degenerate into fights which become deadly with the addition of a gun.
Suicides -- most attempted suicides fail, except for those made with a gun.
The data are uncontroverted. Lower % of households with guns = lower death rate.
And by the link you provided earlier were part of domestic abuse...that has been reported numerous times...alcohol involved.....or just plain stupidity....
As stated in the links you provided earlier...they were gonna kill themselves no matter what....gun or not...
So no, you cannot add suicide...
That is just not true. About 6% of the people who attempt suicide by cutting their wrist are successful. 97% of people who shoot themselves in the head die. In addition, surviving suicide patients usually do not attempt suicide again. About 80% of suicides are impulse not premeditated.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
