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Location: NYC based - Used to Live in Philly - Transplant from Miami
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RebelCreator, we all know the reason why you started this thread to begin with. And we all know that deep inside from the very first sentence you wrote, you know that that the customer is the wrong one.
Just give it up.
Your beliefs are trumping the Constitution and the freedoms of other people.
Thank you for proving exactly what gay marriage opponents have been warning us about all along. The gay agenda was never about marriage.
We are now in Stage-2 in gay agenda "to do" list.
Your "freedom" to be a bigot and discriminatory? Really? Stage 2 in the gay agenda??? Get a life dude! Do you have anything going on in your life that is meaningful? I'm going to guess - NO. Get help.
Your beliefs are trumping the Constitution and the freedoms of other people.
Thank you for proving exactly what gay marriage opponents have been warning us about all along. The gay agenda was never about marriage.
We are now in Stage-2 in gay agenda "to do" list.
Do they pass this gay agenda out at your church? I have never seen a gay agenda and the only ones that parrot it are the anti gays. The gay agenda was created by you people. All gays want is the same exact same representation and rights as everyone else, not a separate set because we are gay. So, it would obviously be fine if your beliefs were encoded into the constitution, but to include gays in marriage equality is trumping it.
It's more an "offensive agenda" than anything else. If someone said to put the following on a cake: "Beat your kids, to keep them in line" or "I hate all black people" or whatever inscription the customer wanted, the baker has a right to refuse, if it is offensive to him or his business.
The sign on the wall reads: "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" applies similarly if a customer wants offensive inscriptions written on the top of his cake. We bake it/ice it but we don't share in your "hate messages." ...Take the cake home and do what you will....
What if the baker just agreed to sell the gay couple a plain straight wedding cake and then they can make it a gay wedding cake once they take it home because obviously you guys think there is a difference.
If a baker agrees to bake and decorate a wedding cake for a gay couple, there is no discrimination.
If a couple, gay or straight, wants a specialized topper/decoration that's not in the baker's catalog, there is no discrimination. The couple is free to add their own topper. If the couple, gay or straight, chooses decorations from the baker's catalog and the baker provides the cake as shown, there is no discrimination.
But that didn't happen in the case you're referring to. The baker refused to provide any service (no cake for you!) to a couple just because they were gay. That's discrimination.
In the case being discussed in this thread, the baker agreed to provide a bible-decorated cake from their catalog. No discrimination. The customer asked for a specialized inscription, one that the bakery refused because it does not provide that service to anyone. No discrimination. The customer was perfectly free to add his/her own inscription, in fact the baker offered the tools to do so. No discrimination.
Now let's say the baker in the 2nd case provides bible-shaped cakes with an inscription saying "God hates heterosexuals". Then the customer wanting the "hates homosexuals" inscription might have a legal case, certainly they'd have a legitimate beef. But that's not what happened. They asked for an inscription that the bakery says is not in their repertoire. A bakery can similarly say "sorry, we don't put purple flowers on our cakes", and as long as they don't offer them to anyone, they're within their right to refuse all requests for purple flowers.
Do you see the difference? One baker says "We don't like your lifestyle so we won't serve you at all, get out of our shop". The other says "We don't like your lifestyle but we'll offer you the same service we do everyone".
Last edited by biscuitmom; 01-22-2015 at 10:33 PM..
Well you either do the whole service (some people could not write on a cake or it would look terrible) or you don't do the service. You can't have it both ways.
Personally I am for businesses having the option of doing the service or not but some people don't think that way and want to sue a company instead of going elsewhere.
Why should any business have to be complacent in a message of hate whether on a cake or a piece of clothing. With the Christian baker, they refused to even make a cake, least wise offer the couple the option of purchasing their own groom/groom or bride/bride and put them on a typical wedding cake the baker would make for anyone else. This baker here would make the cake, frost it even, but not put the message on it and offer frosting for the customer to put their own message on it. First baker discriminated against the individuals requesting the cake based on their sexual orientation, second is not discriminating for that baker does not frost cakes with hate messages. She is not targeting the purchaser, a christian leader of a christian organization, for his religion, nor denying him a cake, just the message.
If a business wants to have the option of discriminating on who it does service with, it needs to operate as a private and not public business. Open to the public, then follow discrimitation laws.
The title of this thread is subterfuge, for the baker never refused to bake the cake and the cake was not a message of pro marriage, it was a message of hate towards a select group of people, no different then if he wanted the message to say god hates jews, or god hates blacks or god hates women, it was still a message of hate.
Some Christians want to argue that making them make a cake for gays is making them participate in the solemnizing of the same sex marriage and here is a Christian trying to force a baker to participate in a message of hate. You cannot have it both ways.
...here is a Christian trying to force a baker to participate in a message of hate.
Just to clarify, it's a pseudo-Christian. "God hates" has no place in true Christianity, it pains me to even type the words.
There's much I would like say here about people who cloak themselves in pseudo-Christianity when discussing civil laws of our country, but to quote Auntie Em, "...well, being a Christian woman, I can't say it!"
So these idiots think it's ok to discriminate against people that were born a certain way, yet get all uppity and claim discrimination against their religion (which they chose to believe) when they are rightly told to **** off by the private business?
It's never been proven one if born a certain way. No gay gene has ever been found. Plus, it is hard to believe when some people change when they get older and develop attractions or the attractions leave. Then we are told sexuality is fluid. One can go from one feeling to another. I think that is true so why change the whole institution of marriage over something so fluid?
You 'disagree' with people being gay. That's as hateful as a KKK member 'disagreeing' with a person being black, or a Neo-Nazi 'disagreeing' with a person being Jewish.
Not the same. One can't help what race they are or what religion they are born into. Being white, black or Jewish isn't a behavior. Homosexuals can choose to act on their feelings-----or not. Many chose not to act on it.
What if the baker just agreed to sell the gay couple a plain straight wedding cake and then they can make it a gay wedding cake once they take it home because obviously you guys think there is a difference.
I am not sure why that one baker refused to make a wedding cake for a gay marriage since he said he would make the gay couple birthday cakes and had in the past. It was his feeling he was supporting something he is against, I would think.
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...Take the cake home and do what you will....
