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Why are so-called "legitimate" news organizations devoting so much time to this freak of nature Bruce Jenner? What has he really done useful for society in the past 25 years? The media is acting like he found a cure for cancer or solved the national debt.
It's a free country so he's entitled to butcher his God-given genitalia any way he wants, but just don't keep shoving his weird pictures in my face and all over the news channels.
Enough is enough already. We got ISIS cutting off people's heads --- major buffoons entering the Republican nomination race --- and an exciting NBA Finals featuring LeBron James about to grab his 3rd ring on his march to immortality. NOBODY cares about Caitlyn Jenner.
We at Johns Hopkins University—which in the 1960s was the first American medical center to venture into "sex-reassignment surgery"—launched a study in the 1970s comparing the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not. Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as "satisfied" by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn't have the surgery. And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a "satisfied" but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs.
It now appears that our long-ago decision was a wise one. A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population.
Wow! That's really troubling, isn't it? Sounds like sex reassignment surgery is treating the symptom, and not the underlying problem.
I certainly support the transgender community, but this doesn't hide the fact that psychological problems and suicide are a common problem in that community. This has existed long before Jenner came onto the scene. I also realized that I never liked Jenner. He looks deranged and weird, and as a woman, he will look pretty damn scary. He has had that blank look in his eyes for decades, and I find his presence to be a symbol of the dumbing-down of our society. He sounds like a valley girl in the way he talks, and I'm surprised I didn't hear more "OMGs" amidst his overuse of the word "like". I never cared for his personality and I certainly am not interested in his public transition. The aspects of society that I am interested in don't involve people like Jenner or the Kardashians. As a rich, white, privileged celebrity, he can get on TV like this and get paid to get all the support he needs to address his issues and make the transition. But there are thousands of non-white people struggling with this problem, and they don't have such resources. They struggle privately, while Jenner publicly exploits his celebrity status for economic gain demonstrating the difference between the haves and have-nots.
Good luck to him, but count me among those who expect this to end tragically.
I agree with most of what you said. But this thing about "white privilege" is getting old. Let's call it what it is "Rich Privilege." I grew up in a poor midwestern family of 8 kids. We all have problems. My ex is a Local Hawaiian guy. One day he went to an encounter type group meeting with me at our church. On the way home he said, "I nevah knew." I said, "You nevah knew what?" He said, "I nevah knew white people had problems too. I thought it was just all easy for you guys. Like on TV." I couldn't believe it. There's so much misinformation being spread by the people who profit from the racism industry. Can we all simmer down and see that the majority of us are just people? Jenner's privilege comes because he is part of the K-clan media wh*redom, and it has nothing to do with his race. Kanye has the same privilege. Maria Carey, Whitney Houston, and other non-whites also get all the support they need from the media and the press -- because they are/were uber rich.
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Originally Posted by apexgds
Important to point out the the suicides are largely not because of the gender identity issues themselves, but because of how OTHERS treat these people.
Nah - they are dealing with depression long before they come out and make the transition. There are so many factors in suicide that you can't simplify it by saying it's just because people are mean to them. They are fortunate in this century to have so many people in their corner. I have another theory, though. Having had emergency surgery, I can't imagine going through multiple elective surgeries for any reason. Anesthesia is nasty stuff, and it takes a long time to recover from anesthesia fog. Some people never do. Doing it to yourself multiple times creates a cumulative effect that could contribute to the suicides. Not only that - the gender reassignment surgery is PERMANENT. Just about any other surgery can be reversed or corrected. You wake up from that, then wake up from your fog and say, oopsie. I didn't really want to do that! And it's too freakin' bad. THAT could be depressing, yes?
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Originally Posted by Siggy20
The other person was an executive in a male dominated profession and had her reassignment surgury long ago. She was level headed, highly respected and no one really gave it a second thought. In fact she was one of the nicer executives and most folks preferred dealing with her versus some of the other arses there! I think that Jenner will gracefully transition into a woman and as he says, it will probably change the world in how a transgendered person is perceived.
I also had a friend waaaay back in the 80's in Hawaii who was transsexual (complete surgery). She was definitely a she. But still, it was always obvious that she used to be a he. It's almost a third gender, and maybe that's what we need to do. Instead of making it about one or the other, just come up with a third gender because they really aren't "female" no matter what they do. However - She was a very sweet, gentle and competent administrator at her job. I had no issue with her or her decision to go through her surgeries at all. She didn't flaunt it and didn't demand respect for anything other than her competence. One difference, perhaps, is that most local families in Hawaii have at least one member of the family who is gay. it just never seemed like a big deal.
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Originally Posted by CaliDude1
... These same thoughts have passed through my head many times when the topic of transgender people comes up. On one hand our society tells us that sexual identity is not tied to "traditional" gender characteristics. Men shouldn't be expected to be "manly" just because they are male. And women shouldn't be expected to be "girly" just because they are women. On the other hand here is someone who is transitioning and the whole point is to adopt "traditional" female characteristics.
The idea of "living as a woman" is a bit problematic in my mind. But that's just me. What does it mean to live as a woman? Can one just take hormones, put on a dress, get a perm, and now truly understand what it means to be a woman and experience womanhood? On a certain level, isn't that a bit disrespectful to women and their experience?
Bruce Jenner should be (and is) free to live his life as he pleases. So its not about shaming him. However, it does raise other questions.
One thing that is missing from this conversation, though, is the very real difference in men and women's brains. In women, there is a difference in the corpus callosum to a certain extent. This is not a better or worse distinction, just different. There are functions that a woman's brain are hard wired for - as the saying in Psychological circles goes, "Women are the keepers of the relationships." We notice more about what's going on between people. We watch interpersonal interactions more closely. These are our mothering instincts. Some of us don't have it as much as others, but for many it's kicked on after puberty and most certainly after having little ones in our lives. I'm not referring to the size of the corpus callosum as much as the cross bridging and connectivity difference in men and women. It is part of the reason many women are better multi-taskers than men. (You know how the men can't be interrupted when watching a football game? That's the single focus vs the multi-tasking focus. Not better or worse, just different.)
I don't want to get into a catfight about brains -- but I'm bringing this up because I wonder: 1) If we were to image Bruce/Caitlyn's brain, would it resemble a female brain more than a male brain? 2) Do the hormones and surgery cause the brain to reshape itself? The brain's amazing plasticity might make that actually happen. It would seem that collecting that sort of data might be useful in helping a person make the transition more smoothly with less emotional trauma.
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Originally Posted by LoveBeingAMommy
What did he do to his left eye??? All the surgery/Botox has given him a droopy, slow blinking left eye!
People who do face reading claim your right side of your brain controls the left side of your face and body. They say you can tell a person's inner thoughts by looking at the left side of their face. Extreme trauma, emotional upset, confusion, etc. would then show up as droopiness on the left side. Interesting theory if true. Might explain it. Let's watch. If he starts feeling more comfortable and happy that may clear up.
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Originally Posted by pollyrobin
According to Her/He, Jenner still has his penis. He has not had any genital surgery.
Maybe he's hedging his bets. Or maybe they make him wait to be sure. That's a drastic surgery!!
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Originally Posted by justNancy
Yes, there's no doubt in my mind Jenner was an exceptional athlete. But if his transformation made "history," what about Christine Jorgensen? I don't know why I know her name, since I was only an infant when she had her male genitalia removed. Maybe my parents were talking about her or I heard something on TV. I honestly don't know. However, imagine having sexual reassignment at a time when June Cleaver was in the kitchen baking cookies. Now that took balls! (so to speak)
Hah- couldn't rep you again Really good point. Actually, what you just pointed out is what makes this internet society so problematic: "History" is what happened 10 years ago. Anything before that is no longer important.
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Originally Posted by justNancy
Florida (of course) recently proposed a law restricting where transgenders can pee in a public building. With 1 in 4 children in FL going to bed hungry, you'd think our reps would have better ways of spending taxpayer dollars. Anyway, it's HB583.
"Single-Sex Public Facilities: Provides purpose & legislative findings; requires that use of single-sex public facilities be restricted to persons of sex for which facility is designated; prohibits knowingly & willfully entering single-sex public facility designated for or restricted to persons of other sex; provides criminal penalties; provides private cause of action against violators; provides exemptions; provides applicability with respect to other laws; provides for preemption."
Can I suggest the easiest, most wonderful, cheapest, and least traumatic solution for all concerned? And I don't know why they don't just do this now!!! You know how there are "family Restrooms" that are one stall. Why not carve out space between the boys and girls or men's and women's bathrooms and put "Restroom" on the door? Have it be a one-stall bathroom. That way a mom or dad with kids can go in; a transgender or someone in the middle of the reassignment process can use it; or if there's a crowd, someone who really has to go bad can just use it no matter what sex. EASY PEAZY
You know - I think what a lot of people are saying about this, and I don't see many being all that disrespectful, is that there's a lot more to being a man or a woman than just the equipment, clothing or hobbies. There's differences in how the brain works and how the hormones work. I don't know how you would "feel like you were in the wrong body." What is that? I've been a tomboy all my life - I ride horses and motorcycles, go hunting and fishing, fly airplanes, love fast cars and antique cars and planes, and I think going to a Vin Diesel movie and watching stuff blow up is a hoot. But I've never felt like I was in the wrong body. I am very fond of that there appendage God gave men, and I'm real clear that I'm happy being a female, even in light of all the tomboy stuff. I wonder where people get these ideas. I wonder how much of it is overheard, or learned from living in Hollyweird, or living in a fantasy world. No disrespect to my family members or friends intended. I keep coming back to The Big Bang Theory where Sheldon's Mom says, ""A cat can have kittens in the oven but that doesn't make 'em biscuits."
I don't know how that's relevant, it just seems appropriate.
I wish everyone the right and the ability to be who they are as long as that isn't causing mayhem in the streets or in the lives of the people they love. Consenting adults in America still have the right to make choices for themselves. I respect that even if I don't understand some of those choices.
We at Johns Hopkins University—which in the 1960s was the first American medical center to venture into "sex-reassignment surgery"—launched a study in the 1970s comparing the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not. Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as "satisfied" by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn't have the surgery. And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a "satisfied" but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs.
It now appears that our long-ago decision was a wise one. A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population.
Interesting. As I said, there needs to be more research into this. There should be alternative methods of treatment instead of just assuming surgery and hormones are the only way to "fix" the problem.
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Originally Posted by notmeofficer
he doesnt and hasnt menstruated
How lucky to be considered a woman and yet never had to go through the monthly annoyance of cramps, bleeding, and having your favorite underwear ruined.
I don't recall the hupla and criticism when Chas (Chasity) Bono transgendered from female to male... No?
Hmmm...Perhaps we'll see Caitlyn Jenner on Dancing with the Stars!
Oh, Chaz got a lot of publicity IIRC. But Chastity came out when she was in her 20s and said "I'm a lesbian." He (Chaz) has also been an LGBT advocate for years. Bruce has been married 3 times, fathered 6 children and cashed in on his macho athlete image and at 65 chose to pose on the cover of Vanity Fair just before the premier of his new reality show. Makes one wonder if it's all about the money, ratings, narcissism or a little of each.
This article states what I've been feeling about all the hoopla a lot better than I can.
[url=http://ethicsalarms.com/2015/06/02/confused-ethics-observations-on-caitlin-jenner-up-and-down-the-cognitive-dissonance-scale/]Confused Ethics Observations On Caitlyn Jenner, Up and Down the Cognitive Dissonance Scale | Ethics Alarms[/url]
He will instantly be turned into a megastar and a chosen role model by the media (and powers that be) for young boys to emulate.
Welcome to the future. What old lady do you know named Caitlyn?
Dude gave himself a Generation Y name, probably named himself after one of his daughter's friends. Disgusting.
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Originally Posted by thefragile
Mmm, yes. Because of Jenner, all boys are going to turn transgender. What a brilliant, logical, well thought post you got going on there.
Lol... yeah. Because of that type complaining, many would continue to be frustrated, unable to become who they really choose to be.
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Really good point. Actually, what you just pointed out is what makes this internet society so problematic: "History" is what happened 10 years ago. Anything before that is no longer important. 
