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"I can no longer defend the theories of "capitalism." (Not that the U.S. subscribes to capitalism; it is a selectively socialist oligarchy)"
There you find that with all things "selectively socialist oligarchy"
If you take work, free will and reason away from people they are left to run to government for their reason, work and free will.
When Americans and companies work for their fruits of their labor, unrestricted, SMALL TAX BURDEN, all innovation will provide better options on FREE energy until then investors on wall street and government will look for new ways to increase REVENUE from the fruits of free people to themselves.
Just going to address the fact that you clearly do not understand where food, power and water come from, or have much familiarity with the laws of thermodynamics, namely the one where there is no perpetual motion.
Food must grown, harvested, and processed to a certain point before it becomes edible to just the farmer. To make it available to you, it must be stored, packaged and transported. None of these things happens naturally, and all require human effort, capital and technology to pull off. Please read "I, Pencil" to understand just what goes into even the simplest of objects.
Energy does not harness itself. Dams do not build themselves, windmills and solar panels do not create themselves, and copper wire that carries electricity to substations and the points beyond does not spin, wind, insulate and run itself. A massive infrastructure is required just to move electricity, with an even larger infrastructure behind its creation.
Water does not change state, it gets made potable. It remains the liquid state of H2O, just with varying levels of impurities. Sea water requires distillation and removal of brine. Lake/river/resevoir water typically requires some form of distillation plus halide additives (fluorine/chlorine compounds), all of which requires again a massive infrastructure to collect, purify and store, and then another for movement, distribution, maintenance, etc.
There is always loss in any extraction, refining, harvesting, etc processes. Farmland becomes less fallow. Water purification and brine/bacteria/impurity removal creates shifts in ecosystems, and energy always always undergoes loss during harnessing, conversion and propagation. There is no perpetual motion.
And of course, all of these things you think "just happen" require all sorts of countless people doing input and output labor, just to make what processes we do have possible.
That's not a failure of capitalism, it's a simple reality that food does not grow and harvest itself, water does not purify and transport itself, and rivers do not dam themselves to provide spinning power to turbines that did not build themselves. People, money, and materials are required for any of that stuff to happen.
Just going to address the fact that you clearly do not understand where food, power and water come from, or have much familiarity with the laws of thermodynamics, namely the one where there is no perpetual motion.
Correct. However, loss of energy is a reduction in energy efficiency, not the means to acquire or produce more energy. (Energy is not created nor destroyed, I know. For sake of argument, "loss" = heat / sound friction and "produce" = harness for human use)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
Food must grown, harvested, and processed to a certain point before it becomes edible to just the farmer. To make it available to you, it must be stored, packaged and transported. None of these things happens naturally, and all require human effort, capital and technology to pull off. Please read "I, Pencil" to understand just what goes into even the simplest of objects.
Where did I suggest otherwise?
What does any of that have to do with limited food resources? All of those factors are dependent on human productivity, which is also self-replicating. A stable population of humans can produce, grow, package, and transport a stable amount of food.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
Energy does not harness itself. Dams do not build themselves, windmills and solar panels do not create themselves, and copper wire that carries electricity to substations and the points beyond does not spin, wind, insulate and run itself. A massive infrastructure is required just to move electricity, with an even larger infrastructure behind its creation.
Correct. Again, where did I suggest otherwise? What does any of that have to do with scarcity? My argument was not one against human production.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
Water does not change state, it gets made potable. It remains the liquid state of H2O, just with varying levels of impurities. Sea water requires distillation and removal of brine. Lake/river/resevoir water typically requires some form of distillation plus halide additives (fluorine/chlorine compounds), all of which requires again a massive infrastructure to collect, purify and store, and then another for movement, distribution, maintenance, etc.
There is always loss in any extraction, refining, harvesting, etc processes. Farmland becomes less fallow. Water purification and brine/bacteria/impurity removal creates shifts in ecosystems, and energy always always undergoes loss during harnessing, conversion and propagation. There is no perpetual motion.
And of course, all of these things you think "just happen" require all sorts of countless people doing input and output labor, just to make what processes we do have possible.
That's not a failure of capitalism, it's a simple reality that food does not grow and harvest itself, water does not purify and transport itself, and rivers do not dam themselves to provide spinning power to turbines that did not build themselves. People, money, and materials are required for any of that stuff to happen.
People, money, and energy are all renewable, limitless, or replaceable. Money is made up. A stable population is stable human labor ("renewable"), and energy is not a closed system, as we receive energy from the sun.
Last edited by Opin_Yunated; 02-04-2015 at 02:10 PM..
Scarcity isn't going away no matter which political/economic system you have. Prioritizing necessities as justified basics for every citizen is a valid stance, but it's going to come at the cost of other things.
You missed the point. Reading comprehension
Scarcity is artificial. That was the entire premise of the OP. Scarcity exists because elites of the world make it so it exists. We have the technology and human capital to create a fully sustainable population accessible to all humans. We just choose not to distribute the resources evenly. By preventing some humans from acquiring these resources, other humans get to keep more ("wealth"). Hence, the gap between the rich and the poor is the sole remaining reason for capitalism. In order for someone to get rich, these artificial conditions of scarcity must be preserved. That's why oil will continue to be the source of U.S. foreign policy, and why the rich will lobby the government to keep it that way.
An economic topic, but I'll see how this does here first.
I can no longer defend the theories of "capitalism." (Not that the U.S. subscribes to capitalism; it is a selectively socialist oligarchy)
The "free market" requires the economic principle of scarcity. The problem is that our most important resources (food, energy, and water) are not limited unless we artificially choose to limit their availability to populations.
Food: The organisms we consume are self-replicating. We have the farming technology to cultivate stable populations of our food. The energy needed to cultivate food is also renewable, as mentioned below.
Energy: We have 5 billion years of energy coming from that yellow ball in the sky. We also have renewable wind and hydroelectric power.
Water: Water simply changes state. There can be no water shortage, as we have the technology to purify it.
The scarcity LIES are brought to us by our governments, which have the unlimited ability to create their own fiat currencies. So.... why does this riddle even exist?
Well then I see a life of leisure ahead for you then. You simply need to grow enough food for you and your family, tap into that endless supply of water, and harness enough energy from the sun to make your little paradise run on a self sustaining basis.
Starting off with a flawed premise will bring you to a flawed theory.
What is flawed about it? Please explain thoroughly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnynrat
Well then I see a life of leisure ahead for you then. You simply need to grow enough food for you and your family, tap into that endless supply of water, and harness enough energy from the sun to make your little paradise run on a self sustaining basis.
Best of luck to you!
Dave
Was that my argument?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow
Do you call anything and everything you don't understand a "strawman"?
An economic topic, but I'll see how this does here first.
I can no longer defend the theories of "capitalism." (Not that the U.S. subscribes to capitalism; it is a selectively socialist oligarchy)
The "free market" requires the economic principle of scarcity. The problem is that our most important resources (food, energy, and water) are not limited unless we artificially choose to limit their availability to populations.
Food: The organisms we consume are self-replicating. We have the farming technology to cultivate stable populations of our food. The energy needed to cultivate food is also renewable, as mentioned below.
Energy: We have 5 billion years of energy coming from that yellow ball in the sky. We also have renewable wind and hydroelectric power.
Water: Water simply changes state. There can be no water shortage, as we have the technology to purify it.
The scarcity LIES are brought to us by our governments, which have the unlimited ability to create their own fiat currencies. So.... why does this riddle even exist?
The "free market" requires the economic principle of scarcity. Why do you even bother?
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Why do you even bother?
