Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No I'm obsessed with compassion and consideration for others. You're apparently obsessed with sticking it to people who are poorer than you. How petty.
Stop making excuses for the corruption you advocate and your failure to innovate solutions. An upstanding and honorable job creator wouldn't make excuses for failing to do so and surely wouldn't have those excuses be that society doesn't allow you to spew toxic waste into rivers and the air, that society doesn't allow you to abuse and endanger workers, that society doesn't allow you to hide your business dealings so that you can commit transgressions with impunity.
Nirvana fallacy. Try again.
For some posters, that's their only means of participating in the conversation. They have no reasonable response to upstanding comments, so they just spew vitriolic nonsense in an attempt to make it seem like they have something to say in response when the reality is that they don't. Case in point:Indeed. Given that no one has said that, you basically just posted a ridiculously childish deflection instead of maturely responding to the topic of the thread. Your mother would be so proud of you.
This shows the inherent corruption of the perspective you support: No thought about determine and resolving root cause. Just flush people you don't like down the toilet. They're in the way of your comfort and luxury, eh? That's such a despicable attitude you present.
We are on opposite sides for a reason....You say there is no compassion....We are not letting our populace die in the streets. We are providing food, housing, phone , electricity and no matter what we give it is never enough. When the hard working middle class get less than the 5 kid welfare mom something is WRONG with YOUR system....It isn't getting better it is getting worse with record numbers of welfare recipients....How can you NOT understand this point of view???
Ps....As for your solution....Welfare people ARE given jobs....They stay at them long enough so they again can start receiving welfare again. They don't want jobs to better themselves, they want handouts so they never have to work. Wake up and see reality.....WE are TIRED of paying for generation after generation of the SAME families being on the government toll. How is it possible that they are so disabled that they can't work but have no problem being baby factories of yet more welfare recipients?
We are on opposite sides for a reason....You say there is no compassion....We are not letting our populace die in the streets. We are providing food, housing, phone , electricity and no matter what we give it is never enough. When the hard working middle class get less than the 5 kid welfare mom something is WRONG with YOUR system....It isn't getting better it is getting worse with record numbers of welfare recipients....How can you NOT understand this point of view???
First: Say more. You're correct that we're doing most of what we need to do. There are still some gaps, but we're surely closer to a reflection of compassion than a reflection of selfishness.
And the left gets full credit for that. The right works hard to chip away at it. Compassion on the left. No compassion on the right.
So say more. If you're saying how things are now is good, then we have only a minor disagreement, that small gap I mentioned. If you're instead saying that we should be taking down the structures that are preventing "our populace [dying] in the streets", then accept the condemnation implied in my earlier message as your own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68551
They don't want jobs to better themselves, they want handouts so they never have to work.
And you think yourself compassionate when you hold such corrupt categorical assumptions about the poor? You're a horrible human being if you think that my step-sister is like that, despite her financial challenges. You should be ashamed of yourself, and if you're not, that should be a clear indicator of the lack of compassion I was referring to.
But please do say more. Tell us what you'll do when you're made king with all these poor people you hate so much? What kind of living conditions would you subject them to in your prisons. What physical harm will you inflict on them? What rights will you rip from them? Tell us. Please. Do say more about how you'd treat other people if you had your way. Don't dodge. Don't evade. Don't deflect. Describe their lives for us.
For years I've heard opponents to welfare or those pushing for reform say that welfare makes people "dependent" on the gov't. My question is how do you determine that welfare recipients are "dependent" on the government vs those who actually need assistance from the gov't?
Can a person be dependent on welfare if they qualify for the benefits? If you qualify then haven't you been determined to be a person who actually needs these benefits? So if you qualify and actually need welfare benefits then the dependent label shouldn't be applied to you.
Can everyone PLEASE get back to the OP's question?
Dependency is in the mind of the grantor. Yes, they qualify, but once they get into the system they never seem to get out. This is where there is no manpower to police who still receives welfare after the persons initial crisis is over...Is the person able to walk?, can they move their arms? Then there are ALWAYS jobs they can do....Look at all of the Walmart greeters in wheelchairs. They can't walk but they aren't sitting at home being dependent on the system....There are plenty of desk jobs in all sorts of careers for me to believe an able bodied person who wants to work can. I even saw a blind man at the Dept of Transportation years ago who was a cashier in the cafeteria. How that man could get to work every day on his own was inspiring!!
My husband knows a guy on disability who snowmobiles every day. It seems the fumes at his work gave him a bad headache so instead of getting a different job he now gets disability like his old job was the only one on the planet. Where are the welfare police telling him he qualifies for nothing now after not getting another job?
But please do say more. Tell us what you'll do when you're made king with all these poor people you hate so much? What kind of living conditions would you subject them to in your prisons. What physical harm will you inflict on them? What rights will you rip from them? Tell us. Please. Do say more about how you'd treat other people if you had your way. Don't dodge. Don't evade. Don't deflect. Describe their lives for us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68551
Can everyone PLEASE get back to the OP's question?
Okay I think evasion that makes clear the scurrilous nature of your perspective.
So give them a motivator - give them all jobs with wages that allow them to pay their own way and secure their own future and the problems vanish. Don't make excuses. Just do it. The left will not stop you from offering those jobs. Go ahead.
"give them all jobs" Way too many are unemployable. They lack even a high school diploma.
BUU in answer to your ^^^question.....After monumental protest & crime the poor will settle down and decide if they no longer get handouts its either work or die. Churches and volunteer societies will still have soup kitchen so no one will starve. Generous neighbors will give handouts to the truly needy and offer them home improvement jobs as they did before welfare. Enough people will again be in the work force and contribute to the government toll hopefully paying off some of the deficit. The truly needy, really handicapped (not imagined) and SHORT term welfare will continue to get people back on their feet until they can get back to work...
Don't you see that your unpoliced welfare system with handout after handout and entitlements isn't working as you hoped? It is really time to be fair to the middle class and quit undermining the work they do by offering the same lifestyle to someone on welfare?
For years I've heard opponents to welfare or those pushing for reform say that welfare makes people "dependent" on the gov't. My question is how do you determine that welfare recipients are "dependent" on the government vs those who actually need assistance from the gov't?
Can a person be dependent on welfare if they qualify for the benefits? If you qualify then haven't you been determined to be a person who actually needs these benefits? So if you qualify and actually need welfare benefits then the dependent label shouldn't be applied to you.
Lazy, able-bodied dolts that have adopted the lifestyle of government dependence.
Look, I answered your question in one sentence.
If you can't afford Kids, don't have them. A day is too long, if the Parents are capable of working.
I don't mind my tax dollars going to those who really need it, but it irks the heck out of me to see assistance going to fully capable of working people who have found out how to "use" the system as a living, because they don't want to work. And the "Disability" system is just as corrupt. You have these quack Doctors and Lawyers working together to get benefits to people who complain about a backache or some phony phobia, and get disability, where some one that really may need it can't, or continues to suffer and work because they are proud. The whole system is so screwed up, it can't be fixed without a major, major, overhaul. we are starting to become a Country of users for money, and greed drives the engine.
I watch some clown on TV that's a Lawyer, or a Legal firm, telling people to come to them, and they will get you disability for a fee, and the next commercial will be some clown asking if you owe 100,000.00 in taxes, and want them to make a deal so you pay pennies on the dollar. The guy with the money gets a break, and pays very little of what they owe, and you pay all of yours, and have to make up what he did not pay.....
We need to separate "Need" and "Greed"
"people who have found out how to "use" the system"
I'll give you a perfect example.
I did some work in their old house which was gov't housing and knew them, so when I went to the new unit and the man there actually BRAGGED to me about how he was able to scam the system.
Wash, D.C. built a brand new gov't housing project.
A married couple had 6 kids.
The got "divorced". EACH of them got 3 kids in the divorce.
They EACH "qualified" for and got a 3 bedroom townhouse.
The units they got were side by side to each other.
The entire family moved into 1 unit.
They rented out the 2nd unit. to 3 different people.
They even rented out bathroom privileges to different people in addition to the "room" renters.
Many on welfare lived in project housing drove taxi cabs. It's a cash business and a lot of dollars can be hidden.
Well we are in a bind as a society. In a perfectly "do it yourself" world those who don't or can't would be left in the rubble to die. We can see that sort of society elsewhere in the world. Do we want that? Would it be good for the country or just for a few people who might pay less in taxes?
We know there will always be a segment of people who will never be totally independent no matter what opportunities they have but we don't just toss them because we decided it wasn't moral or something...
Other people are in a hole, maybe a generational hole, and it's not simple to get out of it even if you give them a job tomorrow. There would be a whole lot of "re education" and undoing of things that would need to happen too. It easy to be dependent on things, all of us are, and if you suddenly had to do without your life could fall apart. It's not just welfare.
Look at how many people got off welfare when Newt got welfare reform passed.
All of a sudden many of them found jobs. Not a surprise to many of us.
Then Obama changed the work requirement, in my mind he changed the law WITHOUT going through Congress, and welfare immediately increased.
You can draw your own conclusions.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
