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THIRTY FIVE MILLION PEOPLE GOING WITHOUT... Which you wont address.
And dont tell me to look at posting #67 again because I'm sick of hearing that lie from you...
In other words, you will continue to pretend that I didn't address it (and I notice that the number has grown by five million in 24 hours) because you don't like the facts presented. Hiding your head in the sand to avoid facts doesn't make the facts go away, pgh. It just makes you look silly standing there like an ostrich with your head in the sand.
Well, it's been fun, but I must now go to work so I can afford to pay for my health insurance, since I don't get it free like you do.
Carry on pretending that everyone else is a leech except you. Just be sure to stay away from any mirrors or you might be confronted with the biggest leech in the room.
I'm sorry but if you are pushing for single payer then you have to prove that it works in the US, where a very significant portion of the population pays zero income taxes. You can't just claim, "well it works in other countries". That's not proof. If you can offer up some real evidence then we can talk more about it. I do realize that the ACA is messed up. No need to remind me of that. I'm well aware.
Exactly, in most of those countries it works well on, the participation rate of tax payers, are far higher than we have here.
But yet ask someone to pay $6 a month for birth control, and we're told thats ridiclous.
In other words, you will continue to pretend that I didn't address the uninsured (and I notice that the number has grown by five million in 24 hours) because you don't like the facts presented. Hiding your head in the sand to avoid facts doesn't make the facts go away, pgh. It just makes you look silly standing there like an ostrich with your head in the sand.
Well, it's been fun, but I must now go to work so I can afford to pay for my health insurance, since I don't get it free like you do.
Carry on pretending that everyone else is a leech except you. Just be sure to stay away from any mirrors or you might be confronted with the biggest leech in the room.
You didnt at all address the uninsured, you blamed a lack of expansion of medicaid which the CBO says is only about 2 million individuals making up the difference. We're discussing the other 35 million folks. Which YOU WONT ADDRESS.
My numbers didnt grow, Its the discussion which has changed, the 30 million is the NEVER FALL below number, the 35 million is the CURRENT number..
YOU dont know what you are talking about, you choose to be uneducated, thats fine.. YOU made me a leach, I bet you blame rape victims as well..
btw, here is the CBO report, care to address the facts? I bet NOT..
I was fine paying 100% for my previous policy, YOU are the one who had a problem with it..
Your problem again was what? Ooh thats right, YOU werent leaching off the government before,
now that you are, then somehow I'm to blame because I opposed losing the policy I COULD afford, even though YOU are leaching and denying anyone lost policies and ACA didnt do harm. You spent HOURS looking for anyone that was damaged, well you found someone, and rather than address WHY I'm a victim in something you supported, you are now attacking me because YOU called for me losing my policy, just so you could get a subsidy.
Do you blame aborted babies for their murder also?
I'm more than fine with my previous policy, why again dont I have it?
Have you seen any evidence that single payer won't work in this country?
Yes, there are reams of evidence which I have presented, only to be accused of throwing "walls of text" at people.
Not one Obamacare supporter has ever addressed or refuted any evidence I've ever presented.
Fact: Medicare was 3.48% of GDP in 2013
Source: Table V.B3.—HI and SMI Incurred Expenditures as a Percentage of the Gross Domestic Product
Fact: Medicare has 50,829,000 verified enrollees as of July 1, 2012
Source: Table 2.1 Medicare Enrollment: Hospital Insurance and/or Supplementary Medical Insurance Programs for Total, Fee-for-Service and Managed Care Enrollees as of July 1, 2012
Fact: Civilian noninstitutional population is 249,899,000
Source: BLS LNU00000000 for February 2015
Fact: Medicare-for-all is 17.11% of GDP and doesn't cover Age 15 and under.
Fact: Medicare-for-all doesn't lower costs of medical care.
Fact: The only thing that will reduce costs is implementation of Free Market reforms in Medical Care.
Fact: Eastern European States employed Free Market principles, including Capitalist Property Theory and specifically the Corollary of Diversification & Specification
Fact: Healthcare systems such as those in Portugal, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom are barred by the US Constitution See: National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius, 183 L. Ed. 2d 450 (2012)
Fact: The remaining Euro-States with universal-style healthcare systems rely on the Free Market.
The former German Minister of Health can explain this to you:
Polyclinics—clusters of general practitioners who work together to form more specialized primary care centers—were used extensively and quite successfully in the former German Democratic Republic.
However, many politicians in West Germany initially disliked the idea of polyclinics because they associated them with communist ideology. It took a while for many people to understand that polyclinics offer significant advantages with regard to communication, coordination, and cooperation.
Source: How Germany is reining in health care costs: An interview with Franz Knieps pp 30-31.
The American Hospital Association Cartel/Monopoly has decreed that you will use the antiquated outdated outmoded Hospital Model regardless of its grotesque inefficiency and costly wastefulness of money and resources.
Do you understand that we are swimming in irony here?
The Capitalist Property Theory has two corollaries: Diversification & Specialization.
How freaking bizarre is it that "Socialist" Western Europe and "Communist" Eastern Europe adopted and applied Capitalist Property Theory in order to maximize the efficiency and reduce the cost of their medical care delivery system while a monopolistic cartel in so-called "Capitalist" America along with Obamacare supporters rejects it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny
Especially since it works well in other countries?
Faulty Comparison If you try to make a point about something by comparison, and if you do so by comparing it with the wrong thing, then your reasoning uses the fallacy of faulty comparison or the fallacy of questionable analogy.
Let us know when you understand the difference between a federal republic with a heterogeneous population and a homogenous nation-State.
Single payer discussions taking place from the left, is an acknowledgment that ACA is a failure..
So why is it so hard to admit it?
That would be the long and short of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno3314
Five years in and still isn't fully effect....let's see the success once everything is in force.
Excellent point.
Obama gutted half of it to keep you out of a recession.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
You can't compare a country as large and as economically diverse as the US to the small, more homogenous countries where single payer works. If you are pushing for this type of system in the US then you need to be able to show some evidence that it can work here as well.
Another excellent point.
All they got is, "It works in the Kingdom of Norway whose population is 200,000 less than Cook County, Illinois."
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient
And who thinks zero deductible (and zero insurance) and a $50K emergency surgery bill is good? :roll eyes: Republicans, apparently.
Apparently Obama does...
HEAVY HITTER The American Hospital Association represents 37,000 individual members at more than 5,000 hospitals and health care systems.
The American Hospital Association gave....
$779 Million to Obama for America 2008
$260 Million to DNC 2008
$428 Million to RNC 2008
...and apparently Obama profited handsomely for thinking so.
Impress us all and translate this into English....
Virtual budgets are also set up at the regional levels; these ensure that all participants in the system—including the health insurance funds and providers— know from the beginning of the year onward how much money can be spent.-- Franz Knieps German Minister of Health (2009)
Source: How Germany is reining in health care costs: An interview with Franz Knieps
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient
And what's the Republican alternative?
There need not be one.
Why don't you read the Supreme Court's decision in Sebilius?
Healthcare --- both components which are your Medical System and your Payment System ---- are intra-State Commerce.
Which part of "intra-State Commerce" do you not understand?
Which part of "Congress has no authority" do you not understand?
You want the Republicans to violate the US Constitution and more than a dozen Supreme Court rulings issued since 1878 just so you feel all warm and good inside?
Healthcare is an issue that you need to be taking to your governor and your State legislature, not the President and Congress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient
No insurance and then go flat-out broke when you get that $50K surgery bill? $6K is a better deal than anything conservatives offer.
Why are you getting a $50,000 surgery bill in the first place?
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradiseca
Congresswoman Catherine McMorris-Rodgers calls for conservative Republicans to respond to her facebook page
I don't do FacePuke just like the majority of Conservatives I know don't do any "social media."
We're not going to teach government how to install a dictatorship.....which is what social media is really all about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469
Yes, and us taxpayers have been paying for the uninsured forever.
Prove it. According to your own government the "uninsured" costs are so insignificant and paltry, they aren't even on the radar....
1] Technology up to 65%
2] Consumer Demand up to 36%
3] Expanding Health Benefits or Insuring more people up to 13%
4] Healthcare Price Inflation up to 19% (caused by Consumer Demand and insuring more people)
5] Administrative Costs up to 13% (caused by Technology, Consumer Demand and Regulations)
6] Aging/Elderly up to 7%
Source: United States Government General Accounting Office GAO-13-281 PPACA and the Long-Term Fiscal Outlook, January 2013 pp 31-36
Yes, and us taxpayers have been paying for the uninsured forever.
Another left wing talking point of lies and ignorance.
Think I'm wrong? Please cite for me what percentage of the federal budget, goes to cover the medical costs for the uninsured...
I'll wait while you find out its ZERO...
But, lets suppose you are correct.
Then what do you have to say about the 35 million going uninsured this year? Didnt we pass ACA to insure EVERYONE? your posting, validates ACA is a FAILURE
Faulty Comparison If you try to make a point about something by comparison, and if you do so by comparing it with the wrong thing, then your reasoning uses the fallacy of faulty comparison or the fallacy of questionable analogy.
Let us know when you understand the difference between a federal republic with a heterogeneous population and a homogenous nation-State.
Inflicting reality on people...
Mircea
Actually, you're deflecting. Your comparison of resident populations being "homogenous" or "heterogeneous" really is a tangential argument that is unrelated to healthcare. You would present a more compelling argument if you stuck to a discussion of the two economic systems at work, a purely predatory capitalist system versus a more socialist form of government that provides single payer healthcare for all. I will say you are a very effective spokesperson for the health care industry, even if your "wall of text" is meant to obfuscate rather than inform.
The predatory capitalist model is designed to maximize profits before the health of its citizens. And it is extremely effective in doing so, just look at the charges for prescription medicine, health care devices and in patient costs to the end user, i.e., those in need of medical care.
It is as obscene as it is profitable.
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