News, Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers (party, financial)
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Arizona was in the same situation a year ago with Governor Jan Brewer. The NFL threatened to move the Super Bowl and to never return to Arizona if Brewer signed the bill into law. Brewer rejected the bill and that was the end of the story. The Arizona Tea Party packed up their bags and hasn't been heard from since.
Yep. I live here and couldn't believe it. Once again, Arizona Republicans were about to sink the state into hell over a meaningless social issue that doesn't resonate with Arizona voters anyway. We're not in the damn Bible Belt.
Shows you just how hardheaded Republicans are. They should know better after the MLK fiasco and the damage it did to the reputation and economy of the state.
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Originally Posted by Bulldogdad
Private businesses should be allowed the FREEDOM to refuse service to anyone they choose.
Well that's exactly what they did in the deep south in the 60's, it seemed fair for businesses to exclude blacks. Very bad business decision and this will not end well for Indiana.
There were laws on the books that would not allow businesses to serve blacks even if they wanted to.
While I stand up for the rights of a business owner to freely engage or not engage in business with anyone they choose for any reason. If I found out a business was participating in discriminatory practices then I would not spend money with them. I'm sure that the majority of people would do the same and the market would sort things out.
If I found out a business was participating in discriminatory practices then I would not spend money with them.
Why should anyone have to 'find out' if that is a business' policy? Are you going to ask at every business you patronize what their discrimination policy is before giving them your business?
If they get the chance to discriminate, it should be mandatory that the business post a large sign in a prominant place that they do not serve (fill in the blank).
There were laws on the books that would not allow businesses to serve blacks even if they wanted to.
While I stand up for the rights of a business owner to freely engage or not engage in business with anyone they choose for any reason. If I found out a business was participating in discriminatory practices then I would not spend money with them. I'm sure that the majority of people would do the same and the market would sort things out.
Unless a place requires a paid membership, I wanna have access to every business that you have access to. I'm not trusting the market to sort things out. After all, the market didn't sort things out during Jim Crow.
I knew about this since I tend to read the news and keep abreast of current events. But actually listening to it discussed on a morning radio show (& not even a news/talk station) really drew my ire. For some reason I all of a sudden felt like I was living in 1965 where people were trying to preserve the sanctity of 'tradition.' I'm sure the next step will be someone deciding that hoodies violate their religious beliefs or some other such coded tom-foolery. Slippery slope here...
The fact that no single big-name Republican has come out against this speaks volumes.
Yep. I live here and couldn't believe it. Once again, Arizona Republicans were about to sink the state into hell over a meaningless social issue that doesn't resonate with Arizona voters anyway. We're not in the damn Bible Belt.
Shows you just how hardheaded Republicans are. They should know better after the MLK fiasco and the damage it did to the reputation and economy of the state.
For some reason Arizona has a large percentage of Republicans when contrasted against the rest of the west. Many California Republicans moved out there it seems...
I am still digesting what it says. Seems that the key words are 'substantially burden' (see Section 9), meaning that a person may claim that to provide services to someone would 'substantially burden' their ability to exercise their religious freedom.
It appears to be rather vague (it does not actually identify gays or such as those imposing the burden). I assume, from my first reading, that one may also use this statute as a defense if they wish to deny service to those who hold different religious beliefs. I shall read it again later.
Thank you for the link to the " slippery slope".
There are reportedly 33,000- 40,000 Christian denominations. Anyone can form a church and interpret the bible anyway they choose. Some of these churches adhere to the beliefs of the Christian Idenity movement and racist interpretations of Christianity. Would this law allow owners to post signage , " No Jews" and/ or " No Blacks"?
I really thought that Mike Pence was one of the more smarter Republicans. He had a reputation of being very competent and pragmatic as a congressman.
If he signs this abomination, he may as well forget those presidential ambitions. But for some reason, these right wingers just can't help themselves even when they know what they're about to do is dumb. Republicans in Indiana gain absolutely NOTHING by implementing this nonsense.
But whatever. They voted for him so...(shrug).
More smarter?
If he signs the bill that says a photographer can't be compelled to attend a gay wedding and shoot photos if he has a religious objection seems reasonable. Why should the freedom of the gay couple outweigh his freedom?
From a political standpoint, why is it dumb? All those gays who will abandon the Republican Party? The party stands to lose more people from restricting and not protecting religious freedom.... which I suspect is a big part of the current brouhaha about these kinds of policies. The left would love nothing more than to have religious conservatives form a third party. The Democrat drove out practicing Catholics and Baptists years ago and hope the Republicans do the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss
The stupidity in this is the power of GREEN (Money). Any business owner should not care what you do outside of his business as long as you have the green to pay him. If they are so stupid to ask questions and want to refuse service or sales, they will not be around long.
Any business owner should have the freedom to refuse to serve anyone he doesn't like for whatever reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight
Well that's exactly what they did in the deep south in the 60's, it seemed fair for businesses to exclude blacks. Very bad business decision and this will not end well for Indiana.
You don't seem to understand history very well. The businesses that excluded blacks were not necessarily doing poorly financially. In many cases they were thriving businesses. The difference was that some businesses (restaurants and hotels) wanted to serve black customers, but could not either through codes or intimidation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss
I believe that our system of capitalism and govt. are not about religion.
Freedom to exercise your religious beliefs is supposed to protected from government intrusion. It is sad that states are having to explicitly codify that in the face of the federal government to do so.
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Originally Posted by jjrose
A state law can not allow something that is prohibited by federal law.
I think you have it backwards. A federal law can not prohibit something allowed by the Constitution. You need to amend the Constitution to change that.
Further, the federal government can not assume powers not delegated to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
There were laws on the books that would not allow businesses to serve blacks even if they wanted to.
While I stand up for the rights of a business owner to freely engage or not engage in business with anyone they choose for any reason. If I found out a business was participating in discriminatory practices then I would not spend money with them. I'm sure that the majority of people would do the same and the market would sort things out.
Yes, the marketplace should be where these disputes are settled.
I don't get why gay couples want to force someone who doesn't want to do business with them to do so.
If I went to engage a baking company to bake my wedding cake and found they didn't want my business because I was marrying Samuel not Susan I wouldn't want them either. I'd move on to a baker who did.
Why is that so hard to figure out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
Unless a place requires a paid membership, I wanna have access to every business that you have access to. I'm not trusting the market to sort things out. After all, the market didn't sort things out during Jim Crow.
The market didn't sort things out in the South during Jim Crow because there was not freedom to do so. There were laws against mixings in some cases and intimidation through the Klan in others. One of the reasons I supported federal intervention in the South was for the reason that there was not a free marketplace.
There were laws on the books that would not allow businesses to serve blacks even if they wanted to.
While I stand up for the rights of a business owner to freely engage or not engage in business with anyone they choose for any reason. If I found out a business was participating in discriminatory practices then I would not spend money with them. I'm sure that the majority of people would do the same and the market would sort things out.
That may be true in some cases but would Arizona repealed it's discriminatory laws if not for outside pressure, some of these nuts live in clusters and nothing would change.
There was a recent case of a Muslim group being denied a Mosque by the good people of a small city, the only thing that got their attention was a lawsuit.
Private businesses should be allowed the FREEDOM to refuse service to anyone they choose.
Exactly. I fully support both gay marriage and the right of businesses to discriminate. Government should not be allowed to discriminate, businesses should.
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