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Old 04-30-2015, 09:33 AM
 
2,407 posts, read 1,506,126 times
Reputation: 1453

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America is becoming China. Let me explain.

In China, unless you have a top degree from a top university, you won't get very far in life. Their population is too big, and there's too many qualified people there; so if one person doesn't give in to the insane demands of management, they'll just hire the next guy. Not to mention, an average salary for a master's degree holder in China is $800 per month. That's right.

Why do you think most products from China are poor quality, or poor copies of successful products? The answer is no creativity. They don't teach it in Chinese schools, why? When you're just trying to struggle to survive, creativity, which largely includes the arts, has very little feasibility in a society. Remember in Western culture when things like operas, poems, and paintings were popular? That's when those countries were doing generally well economically. During struggles, however, it is only the practical that feeds people.

In America, we used to be the land of entrepreneurs. People could have a very decent life without even graduating high school. Not so anymore. With big corporate take-overs and competition for decent paying jobs, as well as illegal immigrants and outsourcing driving down US salaries--now we too are falling into the clutches of being required to pay the insane tuition rates of universities, in order to have that degree and become "professional."

But they don't tell you that, even with a master's or PhD, success/stability is not as much of a guarantee as it used to be. No matter how highly schooled you are, there are always barriers, competition, budget cuts, etc. and you're lucky if you can pay off those college loans before you get married, or have a baby, or retire.

Look to China. That's the direction we're heading (China recently surpassed the US economically). They struggle. They go to school for 12 hours a day with 1 day off a month, just so they can have a decent life. Most people have to continue living with parents even after marriage. We've had it too easy here.

I don't usually like making predictions, and I may be wrong, but I truly believe "globalism" does not benefit us. Globalism will eventually balance out the amount of money people make world wide, and since (if you factor in the earnings of every nation) we are some of the highest wage-earners in the US, it stands to reason that our wages will continue to drop until that balance is reached.

Here's an illustration of the point: in the past, to pay a professional to design a one-page webiste, it would cost me at least $100. But today, because it can be outsourced, I just paid an Indian $5 to do the same, with the same professional quality. Now, who in the right mind would pay 20 times as much for the same product?

The times are getting tough.

Last edited by DonJuanQuixote; 04-30-2015 at 09:56 AM..
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Old 04-30-2015, 10:29 AM
 
Location: TN/NC
35,086 posts, read 31,331,023 times
Reputation: 47582
I agree pedigree and prestige are becoming more of an issue.

I grew up in a poor Appalachian area, and my grandfather's generation was able to find work in local factories and coal mines. My dad's generation was able to for the early part of his life, and it's become more difficult as time goes on.
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Old 04-30-2015, 10:35 AM
 
Location: USA
6,230 posts, read 6,926,748 times
Reputation: 10784
We still have it good here in America. If you fail at school you can at least work at Mickey D's and Wallyworld for minimum wage and Uncle Sam will pay you the difference in benefits.
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Old 04-30-2015, 10:53 AM
 
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
2,907 posts, read 2,070,571 times
Reputation: 4478
I don't necessarily disagree with your premise, I do think it isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

For two plus decades following the WWII, USA was unrivaled. No competition. With the arrival of Germans and Japanese things changed, and are changing once again as China, India and others are coming into the mix. USA's "business model" has to change as well. It is no different than a big conglomerate adapting to new market conditions brought on by cheaper, more nimble competition.

The fact of the matter is that USA was the only country in which uneducated, unskilled workforce was able to have a comfortable lifestyle. That didn't happen because we were/are somehow "exceptional", rather it happened due to structural market advantages that are eroding. We just have to adapt.
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Old 04-30-2015, 10:56 AM
 
Location: TN/NC
35,086 posts, read 31,331,023 times
Reputation: 47582
It's also easy to get into this endless loop where your school is not so good, so quality employers won't recruit there. Because there is little recruitment, it's difficult for graduates to get jobs.
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Old 04-30-2015, 10:59 AM
 
1,188 posts, read 1,466,174 times
Reputation: 2110
Quote:
Originally Posted by dog8food View Post
America is becoming China. Let me explain.

In China, unless you have a top degree from a top university, you won't get very far in life. Their population is too big, and there's too many qualified people there; so if one person doesn't give in to the insane demands of management, they'll just hire the next guy. Not to mention, an average salary for a master's degree holder in China is $800 per month. That's right.

Why do you think most products from China are poor quality, or poor copies of successful products? The answer is no creativity. They don't teach it in Chinese schools, why? When you're just trying to struggle to survive, creativity, which largely includes the arts, has very little feasibility in a society. Remember in Western culture when things like operas, poems, and paintings were popular? That's when those countries were doing generally well economically. During struggles, however, it is only the practical that feeds people.

In America, we used to be the land of entrepreneurs. People could have a very decent life without even graduating high school. Not so anymore. With big corporate take-overs and competition for decent paying jobs, as well as illegal immigrants and outsourcing driving down US salaries--now we too are falling into the clutches of being required to pay the insane tuition rates of universities, in order to have that degree and become "professional."

But they don't tell you that, even with a master's or PhD, success/stability is not as much of a guarantee as it used to be. No matter how highly schooled you are, there are always barriers, competition, budget cuts, etc. and you're lucky if you can pay off those college loans before you get married, or have a baby, or retire.

Look to China. That's the direction we're heading (China recently surpassed the US economically). They struggle. They go to school for 12 hours a day with 1 day off a month, just so they can have a decent life. Most people have to continue living with parents even after marriage. We've had it too easy here.

I don't usually like making predictions, and I may be wrong, but I truly believe "globalism" does not benefit us. Globalism will eventually balance out the amount of money people make world wide, and since (if you factor in the earnings of every nation) we are some of the highest wage-earners in the US, it stands to reason that our wages will continue to drop until that balance is reached.

Here's an illustration of the point: in the past, to pay a professional to design a one-page webiste, it would cost me at least $100. But today, because it can be outsourced, I just paid an Indian $5 to do the same, with the same professional quality. Now, who in the right mind would pay 20 times as much for the same product?

The times are getting tough.
Your stereotypes are a bit off. Most Chinese products are good quality nowadays. Your iPhone is made in China. All the high tech sneakers and technical outdoors clothing is made in China. China has 14 of the top 20 top earning visual artists. Beijing has an art scene that blows away anything in the western world, American or European. China had highly cultivated artisans and artists for about a millennium and a half before America even existed. Chinas main problem has always been that they don't have much in the way of natural resources, and they always had a lot of people. It's always been competitive.

But yes, being successful in America is now much more competitive. Unfortunately our social systems (education, child welfare, health care) have not kept up with global realities, so many have entered the current era woefully unprepared.
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Old 04-30-2015, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,216 posts, read 11,343,520 times
Reputation: 20828
Quote:
Originally Posted by dog8food View Post
America is becoming China. Let me explain.

In China, unless you have a top degree from a top university, you won't get very far in life. Their population is too big, and there's too many qualified people there; so if one person doesn't give in to the insane demands of management, they'll just hire the next guy. Not to mention, an average salary for a master's degree holder in China is $800 per month. That's right.
So what? It was like that in Japan in 1950, and with an infrastructure in rebuild.

Quote:
Why do you think most products from China are poor quality, or poor copies of successful products? The answer is no creativity. They don't teach it in Chinese schools, why? When you're just trying to struggle to survive, creativity, which largely includes the arts, has very little feasibility in a society. Remember in Western culture when things like operas, poems, and paintings were popular? That's when those countries were doing generally well economically. During struggles, however, it is only the practical that feeds people.
Fads and innovation are popular everywhere, but nowhere more so than in the First World. There will always be room for creativity.

Quote:
In America, we used to be the land of entrepreneurs. People could have a very decent life without even graduating high school. Not so anymore. With big corporate take-overs and competition for decent paying jobs, as well as illegal immigrants and outsourcing driving down US salaries--now we too are falling into the clutches of being required to pay the insane tuition rates of universities, in order to have that degree and become "professional."
And the growth of a handful of dominant firms in each major market can be laid at the door of the security-obsessed who just have to go along with the tried-and true. A lot of them are relatively-recent immigrants, or women who finally get some disposable dollars after climbing the ladder in a job for which they wouldn't even have been considered, until relatively recently.

Quote:
But they don't tell you that, even with a master's or PhD, success/stability is not as much of a guarantee as it used to be. No matter how highly schooled you are, there are always barriers, competition, budget cuts, etc. and you're lucky if you can pay off those college loans before you get married, or have a baby, or retire.
"Up or Out" has always been the rule within corporate pyramids. You can add a few more things to your "tool kit", or you can strike out on you own (or maybe build a sideline as an "insurance policy", but you can't expect to vegetate in middle management for most of your career.

Quote:
Look to China. That's the direction we're heading (China recently surpassed the US economically). They struggle. They go to school for 12 hours a day with 1 day off a month, just so they can have a decent life. Most people have to continue living with parents even after marriage. We've had it too easy here.
That has been the pattern in every society during the process of industrialization; but there hasn't been much regression. Mature singles still living independent lives well past age 70 far outnumber stay-at-home Millennials whose lofty dreams don't fit the real world.

Quote:
I don't usually like making predictions, and I may be wrong, but I truly believe "globalism" does not benefit us. Globalism will eventually balance out the amount of money people make world wide, and since (if you factor in the earnings of every nation) we are some of the highest wage-earners in the US, it stands to reason that our wages will continue to drop until that balance is reached.

Here's an illustration of the point: in the past, to pay a professional to design a one-page webiste, it would cost me at least $100. But today, because it can be outsourced, I just paid an Indian $5 to do the same, with the same professional quality. Now, who in the right mind would pay 20 times as much for the same product?

The times are getting tough.
Globalism was the ultimate answer to pandering politicians who like to convince their simplistic clientele that somebody, anybody, somewhere, anywhere -- is "holding out" on them. By any physical measure --living, space, energy consumption -- only a handful of other First World nations an match the United States. And if you don't agree with the hedonistic "consumerist" lifestyle (which, I do believe has been oversold, BTW) spend a little time at Amazon or any number of "specialty" websites, and you'll see all manner of "alternatives", many of them started by one guy or gal with a dream -- and ambition.

It's time to get off your duff and figure out how you can fit in; you probably won't get rich, but you will learn how to adapt to a lot more of adulthood's natural unpleasant suprises and disappointments. And that in itself is sufficient.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 04-30-2015 at 11:38 AM..
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Old 04-30-2015, 11:32 AM
 
2,294 posts, read 2,780,997 times
Reputation: 3852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emigrations View Post
It's also easy to get into this endless loop where your school is not so good, so quality employers won't recruit there. Because there is little recruitment, it's difficult for graduates to get jobs.
That's not an endless loop... it's the problem of a low quality school.

The only way that statement would become a loop is if somehow the lack of graduates getting jobs affected the quality of the education provided by the school.
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Old 04-30-2015, 11:53 AM
 
Location: London
12,275 posts, read 7,145,579 times
Reputation: 13661
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1alker View Post
We still have it good here in America. If you fail at school you can at least work at Mickey D's and Wallyworld for minimum wage and Uncle Sam will pay you the difference in benefits.
Hell, I failed at school (not literally, but I usually got B's, with a smattering of C's and A's in both high school and college), and I have a very well-paying job at a 'prestigious' company.

So either I'm very fortunate, or US employers are forgiving academically.
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Old 04-30-2015, 02:11 PM
 
2,407 posts, read 1,506,126 times
Reputation: 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjasse View Post
Your stereotypes are a bit off. Most Chinese products are good quality nowadays. Your iPhone is made in China. All the high tech sneakers and technical outdoors clothing is made in China. China has 14 of the top 20 top earning visual artists. Beijing has an art scene that blows away anything in the western world, American or European. China had highly cultivated artisans and artists for about a millennium and a half before America even existed. Chinas main problem has always been that they don't have much in the way of natural resources, and they always had a lot of people. It's always been competitive.

But yes, being successful in America is now much more competitive. Unfortunately our social systems (education, child welfare, health care) have not kept up with global realities, so many have entered the current era woefully unprepared.
and your assumptions are also off. The products you mentioned are merely produced in China. Not conceived there.
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