7.5 trillion dollars spent on welfare. What do we have to show for it? (drug, companies)
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Yes, yes. That is because black people are more likely to be poor. 25% of black people live in poverty, compared to just 10% of white people. People qualify for welfare if they are living in poverty. It is not like this is a service created by people just wanting welfare. It is driven by being poor.
When you consider that whites out number blacks by a factor of three, the number of poor Americans is equally split between whites and blacks since the number of poor whites and poor blacks is both 20 million people. The face of poverty is just as likely to be a white one as a black one. Also the number of poor whites is increasing faster than poor blacks. Since more whites than blacks are downwardly mobile since jobs that they counted on to not be poor are either disappearing or simply paying less either in current dollars terms or inflation adjusted dollar terms. So its very likely that a majority of poor in the near future will be white no mater how hard they work or how good their education.
1) There are a lot of bad role models, misogyny, and instant gratification memes going on in the 'hood. This means that unfortunately, even many of the financially capable men are not interested in raising their children or marrying the mothers.
2) As described by conservative George Gilder (Wealth and Poverty, 1984), financially marginal men cannot compete with the welfare state for the affection of their desired partners, i.e. the mothers are generally unwilling to marry men who are unable to reliably bring home the bacon, choosing instead the reliable welfare check and other freebies.
You could have just said "I've got nothing to add" and left it at that.
Why? Because it shows how messed up our priorities? Anyone who complains about welfare should automatically be against our military involvement as the "world's police" for the last half century.
Yeah but they don't look poor or act poor.
We have elevated them to "struggling middle class".
Well the lower middle class has probably seen the worst effects of automation and globalization since 1970. Putting profits (short term profits) as a priority does have its consequences.
First conservatives have expanded the word "welfare" to encompass not the direct money government program given, but to government programs like Pell Grants, and the Earned Income Tax Credit, or the Child tax credit, food stamps, Medicaid, and help to rural areas, the elderly, etc
This spending is not "welfare".
Most importantly that spending doesn't even all go to poor people because people with higher incomes can and do use nearly all those programs.
So can't you honestly say we have spent x amount on welfare or poverty, when the programs aren't welfare, and many of the people getting that program aren't in poverty.
This is a fundamentally dishonest and irrational discussion. Again, conservatives now define "welfare" as programs like Pell Grants, you don't have to be in poverty to get a Pell Grant. You don't have to be in poverty to use Medicaid or food stamps, or the earned income tax credit or the child tax credit.
It is a lie to use all that spending which isn't welfare and doesn't only or mostly go to people in poverty and lie and say this is what we spend on poverty and the poor.
Finally, that "welfare" spending mostly ends up in the pockets of hospitals, doctors in the form of Medicaid and most of those who benefit are the elderly, the disabled, and children.
First step? E-Verify ALL jobs in the US. How Much Does Illegal Immigration Cost You? - AMAC, Inc. AMAC, Inc. They come and produce "anchor" babies and also use Medicaid for delivery of the little money bundles. Illegals have a loophole for using the Medicaid by just showing up at emergency rooms, the most expensive care.
First step? E-Verify ALL jobs in the US. How Much Does Illegal Immigration Cost You? - AMAC, Inc. AMAC, Inc. They come and produce "anchor" babies and also use Medicaid for delivery of the little money bundles. Illegals have a loophole for using the Medicaid by just showing up at emergency rooms, the most expensive care.
I have hammered on that issue in several threads on CD. I have watched this since the 70s with employers replacing an entire work force with undocumented people with complete impunity. Not only should e-verify be required but an employer failing to use it should be charged with a felony.
The problem is that it is opposed by a number of Politicians on the Right and the Left, the Chamber of Commerce, the ACLU, Tea Party groups, including Take Back Washington, Tea Party Nation and Liberty Coalition, Agriculture associations, and the National Small Business Assn. Which tells me that there are a bunch of people claiming they want to stop illegal immigration but opposing one of the only ways we can stop it
First conservatives have expanded the word "welfare" to encompass not the direct money government program given, but to government programs like Pell Grants, and the Earned Income Tax Credit, or the Child tax credit, food stamps, Medicaid, and help to rural areas, the elderly, etc
This spending is not "welfare".
Most importantly that spending doesn't even all go to poor people because people with higher incomes can and do use nearly all those programs.
So can't you honestly say we have spent x amount on welfare or poverty, when the programs aren't welfare, and many of the people getting that program aren't in poverty.
This is a fundamentally dishonest and irrational discussion. Again, conservatives now define "welfare" as programs like Pell Grants, you don't have to be in poverty to get a Pell Grant. You don't have to be in poverty to use Medicaid or food stamps, or the earned income tax credit or the child tax credit.
It is a lie to use all that spending which isn't welfare and doesn't only or mostly go to people in poverty and lie and say this is what we spend on poverty and the poor.
Finally, that "welfare" spending mostly ends up in the pockets of hospitals, doctors in the form of Medicaid and most of those who benefit are the elderly, the disabled, and children.
I agree with everything you said except for the idea that food stamps and Medicaid are not inherently for those in poverty.You can't get on those programs unless you are poor. The only exception with Medicaid is if you are disabled or have HIV.
But you are correct that conservatives expand the word "welfare" in order to inflate the annual cost of welfare. For further discussion, conservatives should create a full list of what programs they consider welfare and the annual cost(rather than accumulated, which is a scaremongering tactic) for each.
When I think of welfare I think of:
heating assistance
cash assistance/TANF
food stamps
rental assistance
Public housing/section 8
WIC
Head start
These are all means-tested and meant only for the poor/low income earners.
I agree with everything you said except for the idea that food stamps and Medicaid are not inherently for those in poverty.You can't get on those programs unless you are poor. The only exception with Medicaid is if you are disabled or have HIV.
But you are correct that conservatives expand the word "welfare" in order to inflate the annual cost of welfare. For further discussion, conservatives should create a full list of what programs they consider welfare and the annual cost(rather than accumulated, which is a scaremongering tactic) for each.
When I think of welfare I think of:
heating assistance
cash assistance/TANF
food stamps
rental assistance
Public housing/section 8
WIC
Head start
These are all means-tested and meant only for the poor/low income earners.
The other problem I see, and not just conservatives, is to linger solely on costs and not consider the value of the benefits.
Such as Medicare. What is the value of 10 more quality years of life for a senior? Then multiply that by tens of millions.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybarnaby
There is no answer. For all the honest folks on welfare, there are just as many lazy slobs who refuse to work. If we took their benefits they would be out there robbing people and breaking into stores. They've grown up seeing family members using the system. It's too broken now I think. It will take major pain and suffering to change the cycle of dependence and apathy among a lot of these folks.
Poor hungry folk are the makings of an angry mob.
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