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Read this, then laugh at the notion that conservatives are "the patriotic ones".
Secession = treason, then and now.
Well, since the United States was founded by traitors against the British crown, the moral sanctimony of those who criticize the South can be seen for what it it -- hot air.
Treason can only be committed by a citizen against his or her own country.
The South seceded and formed a new country -- the Confederacy.
Calling Southerners traitors and denying that they were patriots is illogical to say the least.
Which in itself was an act of treason against the United States.....
This is rather hilarious when people make these arguments. What you're essentially saying is that you are a Confederate sympathizer. You cannot hold allegiance to both countries. You can't be proud to be an American AND sympathize with the Confederacy, because the entire goal of the Confederacy was to break away from the United States.
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Originally Posted by dechatelet
The Revolutionary War soldiers were accused of committing treason against England.
At the time, they were British subjects.
I love exposing double-standards.
Context matters......
The Revolution was about fighting for freedom.
The Civil War, in large part, was about preserving the exact opposite.
Last edited by WhipperSnapper 88; 06-24-2015 at 02:05 AM..
You should go look up the word "treason". You clearly don't understand what it means.
You should also go look up the word "revisionism". You are either attempting to re-write history, or you simply don't understand what happened at the time.
Treason:
the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government
Seams pretty cut and dry to me. They were treasonous, they betrayed the United States. Now, if the Confederate Sates of America had won the war and succeeded in forming their own country, a Confederate memorial might be appropriate. However, since the Union won, a memorial to those who tried to tear us apart seems a bit questionable on American soil, that is, if your allegiance is to the United States.
I wonder if the Vietnamese have Memorials for the Americans they killed?
Frankly I think this whole issue with the flag is being blown way out of proportion. To me, it's not as big of a deal as people are making it. It's a knee-jerk reaction to do something after a senseless tragedy.
That said, I really don't get the arguments defending the flag either. People say it represents the "honor", the "bravery", and the sacrifice of those who came to the aid of the state in it's time of need.
But these soldiers were traitors to the Union, were they not? They were trying to divide this country and break it apart. Their actions at best were treasonous. Why are we "honoring" them for their sacrifice, when that sacrifice was made in an effort to destroy the fabric of this nation? You cannot divorce the flag and/or the service of these men from it's goal; to divide the Union and continue the state "right" to slavery.
Finally, instead of erecting memorials to these people, ought not their death and defeat be celebrated by any American who calls themselves a Patriot?
Good questions. Working with genealogy helped answer them for me. Secession was a hard decision for a lot of southerners to make. They had fathers and grandfathers who fought in the Revolutionary War, Mexican War, etc.. The common man didn't necessary agree with the elitist who were in control either (that's what slays me). Yet, at that time, a lot of folks thought loyalty to their region or state took priority over national loyalty. So, when the politicians voted for a state to secede, most of it's citizens followed. Seems pretty silly now or at least for me it does. It was just so different back then, it's hard to understand. The honor in it? There's honor in not wanting to turn your back on your local government and community. There's honor when you take the oath of allegiance upon surrender. After the war was over, the U.S. government considered those that took the oath honorable. I'm not into rewriting history, so I'll honor their opinion and just leave it at that. Unless they were in a battle with Virginia units, most of those soldiers never even saw the flag in question. Since so many do find it offense today, it's probably better off in a museum.
Not that simple. First off, when the southern states formed the Confederate States of America, they were not trying to overthrow the USA government. People like to point at Fort Sumter as justification saying the south started the civil war. However, look at it from a different point of view. When the Confederate States formed their own nation, Fort Sumter was within their nation's borders. This amounted to a foreign military holding a fortified position within their nation. Instead of quickly attacking the fort, the government of South Carolina contacted the US President about removing US Army from their borders. The Confederates tried diplomacy. The USA sent troops and ships to try to resupply the fort which amounts to an invasion of a foreign nation. Some believe Lincoln and Army generals used the troops at Fort Sumter as a tinder box to justify full war against the Confederate States. Another theory is the politicians in DC felt the pressure for war against the south from big money who were losing money from the loss of supplies of raw materials from the south.
Also, many of the south's greatest generals were graduates of the West Point and were once officers in the US Army. While some today look upon them negatively and hold up in high regard the Union officers, one has to remember that there were horrible acts committed by members of both sides. By today's standards, many Union and Confederate officers would be tried and executed for war crimes. Heck, even President Lincoln took actions beyond presidential powers, actions that today would be considered on par with a dictatorship. The actions Lincoln took during the civil war has been used by future presidents to send troops to war without Congressional declaration of war, suspension of writ of habeas corpus, and Lincoln even had political critics arrested, tried in military court, and sent to a military prison.
Last edited by victimofGM; 06-24-2015 at 04:13 AM..
Basically it's a convert way for some to show that they're White nationalists. The South wanted to succeed over states rights to keep slaves. Slavery has its roots in the South, and that's why many idolized the flag.
Basically it's a convert way for some to show that they're White nationalists. The South wanted to succeed over states rights to keep slaves. Slavery has its roots in the South, and that's why many idolized the flag.
Only the rich owned slaves. The average confederate soldier were dirt poor and never owned slaves. In those days, they were more loyal to their state than their nation and fought for their home. Then there was the actions of the Union Army against the civilians in the south; actions that included theft (crops, livestock, and personal property including home), destruction of people's homes and businesses, and raping women (both free and slaves).
Which in itself was an act of treason against the United States.....
Wrong.
As I said, you can't commit treason against a country if you're not part of that country.
By seceding, Southerners were no longer part of the United States of America.
But nice try anyway.
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This is rather hilarious when people make these arguments. What you're essentially saying is that you are a Confederate sympathizer.
Maybe, maybe not.
Either way, it's beside the point.
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You cannot hold allegiance to both countries. You can't be proud to be an American AND sympathize with the Confederacy, because the entire goal of the Confederacy was to break away from the United States.
Look up the definition of a "civil war."
It's a war that starts between members of a single country -- in this case, the United States of America.
You have no justification for saying that the Southerners were any less American than the Northerners.
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Context matters......
The Revolution was about fighting for freedom.
And slavery.
Or do you think that didn't come until long after the Revolutionary War?
Quote:
The Civil War, in large part, was about preserving the exact opposite.
The opposite of the slavery that existed at the time of the Revolutionary War?
Mmkay.
If you say so...
Last edited by dechatelet; 06-24-2015 at 05:16 AM..
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